The “Be Your Customer” Marketing Strategy (and Why It Works), with Katie Pearse

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Introduction

Stephanie: Hello, everyone. Welcome and welcome back to the Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast. I am your host, Stephanie from Serene Clean, and today’s fantastic guest, Katie Pearse, is with us today from Glisten Academy. And I am so excited for you guys to hear her story. And it is truly astounding, all of the things she’s built in her years in the cleaning industry. So Katie, thank you so much for joining me today.

Katie: Thank you for having me.

Stephanie: Of course, of course. And as I just alluded to, you have been in the cleaning industry now for what, 15 years? 2008, right?

Katie: Almost 20, yeah.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh. It’s been a while, right? Time flies.

Katie: Don’t think too deeply about that one. It’s been a long time, yeah.

Starting Green Clean Squad

Stephanie: Exactly. Well, take me back to you starting your cleaning business. Where were you at in your personal life? What prompted that to happen?

Katie: So this was a long time ago, and I was a marketing expert specialist. I was working for a large organization, and a lot of the digital marketing was really starting to explode. Facebook advertising was just getting started, and I was working for this organization, and we had our target audience was a lot of high school and young people. And I thought we should be using this to advertise to them. And of course, my employers were just not interested in that. And I was just really in charge of so many web projects and really excited about digital marketing. And I just couldn’t get my employers’ buy-in.

And so I thought on the other side, because I was such a busy career woman with my brand new house, I just couldn’t stay on top of my cleaning. And I’m a messy person, I’ll admit it, so I didn’t know much about cleaning, and I thought I really need to get a cleaning company in here to help me with keeping my house clean. And so I was trying and really failing at getting anybody decent to come in and really do this professionally.

And so it just clicked. And I thought, why don’t I do this? I could start a cleaning company. And I could take everything I know about digital marketing and this amazing new ability to do pay-per-click ads with Facebook and Google ads and MailChimp and everything, and I could sell cleaning services. Why am I wasting all this knowledge? And I just knew I could do it.

So I thought I had this friend at the time who was an excellent cleaner, and I said, if you teach me how to clean, I will come with you. I will clean with you after working on the weekends, and I’ll make a website, and I’ll find all the customers, and just teach me how to do it. And let’s go do this.

So this is, again, a really long time ago, but we got these lime green tank tops. And we called it Green Clean Squad. And we just hit the road after again, after I was working 40 hours a week at my regular job, and we just started it, I guess, is what you would call a side hustle nowadays. And it just exploded instantly. And within a couple months, I was able to quit my job, and I just knew I had something really special with a lot of potential, and we just started hiring. And yeah, I just, that was it. Here I am.

Why Cleaning is the Best Business

Katie: And I’ve never done any other business. This is just it. I’ve just been obsessed with cleaning this entire time for many, many reasons. Again, I think it goes to the fact that I’m, by nature, not a very clean person. So I really do take it very, very seriously. I don’t think it’s like, I think there’s a very emotional aspect to cleaning.

Now I have a young daughter myself. Back then, I was a single person with a lot of time to devote to starting a business. Now I’m even more my client – the typical residential client with really busy home life who feels guilty about their house and wants to bring in help and is prepared to pay for it. So I really understand my client even better nowadays.

And I just think that what we offer is just such an important service to people. And then on top of that, I just think it’s the best business ever. I think it’s incredible. It’s easy to get started in it, and to have recurring customers and people who will sign up for six months at a time or 12 months at a time and stay with you year after year after year, sometimes decades. I just think it’s just the most incredible industry to be in.

Katie: And so I just absolutely love it. So glad that on a whim I decided to do it, and saw potential to do something. And here I am, all these years later, and still just loving it.

Stephanie: That’s amazing. And I can so relate to this side hustle mentality, because that’s exactly where I was. I just need to make some money. It was on the side of my job. I had no intention for it to be really anything more than that. But just as you experienced, it was as soon as it opened, it’s oh crap, the potential here just snowballs.

The Runaway Freight Train

Katie: Yeah, yeah. And that’s exactly it. I always feel it’s this runaway freight train. That’s the only way I could describe it, because it was just so successful, and I’ve started it more than once in different markets. And even with all the experience you have, you just never seem to even get all the infrastructure in place. Because even if you start it all over again, it’s still different – different market, new software, new expectations, new everything.

And it’s even when I’ve started another company all these years later, it’s I still don’t have everything to keep up with the demand and everything. It’s just, I just think it’s the most incredible business to be in. I can’t be more passionate about encouraging everyone from all walks of life, all genders, everything to do it. I just think that it’s such a need.

And again, if you want to do residential, commercial, industrial – just anything in any capacity – post-construction, if you want to specialize in luxury cleaning residential, any of that stuff, there’s just so many niches you can get involved with in so many different markets. And I just think it’s the best industry. And something I’ll do sometimes, if I’m ever feeling, maybe leads aren’t where I want it to be, or whatever, it’s drive through literally any area. It’s every single building, everywhere, every single building that you pass needs cleaning, everything, every single day.

The Evolution of a CEO Role

Katie: It is. It’s there’s, I mean, it can’t be a more optimistic thing, right? Because you’re right, there are days, of course, where, my job nowadays is extremely different than it was even 10 years ago or five years ago. I feel my job now because my company is so large and again, now it’s cross-border USA and Canada and multiple cities and multiple industries. I feel now it’s so much more compliance. That’s what I do all day. I’m more a CEO of compliance. It’s just, am I following all the government regulations? Am I every Occupational Health and Safety Law? Am I following? That is what I do all day, every day. Labor Law is everything, right?

That is a far cry from what I did even 10 years ago, where it was just oh, I get to come up with amazing marketing campaigns and as a creative in my heart, that’s really what I love doing. So yes, sometimes it’s oh, I just spent another week doing nothing but reading through contracts and writing contracts and bylaws and procurement and things, right? So yeah, sometimes it’s oh, this isn’t quite the creative fun stuff. But then yes, every day that I’m driving even my daughter to school and home. It’s you drive past a church that’s being built, you drive past a mansion, and you’re just yeah, everywhere. It’s I love this.

Stephanie: It’s so funny.

Katie: I bet they need cleaning. That’s literally everyone and everywhere you go, and everyone you talk to, right? If it’s your neighbor, if it’s your doctor, it doesn’t matter, right? So it’s I don’t know. I just think it’s, and again, it can be a luxury. It can be a necessity. It’s just again every angle. It’s just, it’s cleaning. It’s great. And it can be fun. It can be boring. It can just be again, oh, it’s just mopping. So again, janitorial work. You can just be we’re just in the background. You never see us. You don’t have to worry about us. We’re just there after hours.

Or on the other side, with my residential where it’s over the top luxury with the NHL players and stuff. It’s we are here doing million dollar mansions and gift baskets and everything. Is just over the top luxury concierge service. And it’s you can just do it all right. So and especially for people maybe who tend to be a little bit more entrepreneurial. So dare I say we’re a little bit more, I don’t want to throw around ADHD, but maybe a little yeah, we need a little bit of that. Person I talked to today. I’ve done here, my second interview today, and I have ADHD, so did she. So do you?

Stephanie: It’s I don’t know, and maybe it’s not exactly that, but it’s definitely obviously, doing the same thing in and out every day is a different type of person and the type of person us, perhaps, where it’s yeah, you can completely switch gears if I want to decide I’m going to tackle churches. And we’re just going to be oh, yeah. I want to really focus on cleaning churches. That’s what we’re going to do. And then if tomorrow I’m at an NFL game, and it’s you know what? Let’s go back to that. I’m going to really focus on pro athletes again. And let’s do, you just you can get inspiration from anything, and I just find that, obviously, so appealing, and that’s just what gets me excited all the time.

Selling to Yourself – The Marketing Secret

Stephanie: Well, obviously everything you just said, I’m sure all of our listeners are chomping at the bit to hear more details about that, but I want to circle back, just coming back to what you said a little bit earlier about you are now your customer more so now that you’ve had a child, and talk to me about because you have this marketing background, right? So I really want to pick your brain about that. I love marketing as well. It’s my favorite part, the branding, the marketing stuff, right? And talk to me about the importance of not just knowing your customer and you are, you just said you are now more your customer, but the importance of being able to communicate that you know them, right?

Because I think a lot of our owners that are listening right now, they know their customer, but they don’t utilize that to the fullest in their branding and marketing at all. Because when you go to their website, when you go to any of their communication, it’s just everybody else, and it’s you have so much right there. Just by being your customer, we are our customer, right?

Katie: I think that is the most important thing. And I think when you if you really can believe that you the best way you can ever sell anything is by selling to yourself. I mean, it’s just, it makes so much sense. So I don’t need to sell to a 50-year-old man in Dallas, when I can sell to a 46-year-old woman in Houston with a young daughter. I know what my needs are. I know what my struggles are. I know that I, I know what stresses me out. I know what a cleaner would do for me, and I know what is going to stop me from buying a cleaner. It’s not the money, it’s the stress.

So it was always the stress for me, even when I was 25 and started this. So it was I can’t be told I need to clean up before the cleaner comes. That is so stressful for me, or they’re judging me, or all of that. So I made sure that I had in all of my communications. And of course, my background is corporate communications, but I am very clear that you don’t have to clean up. So you don’t have to worry about putting everything away.

Now, again, we charge by the hour for our initial cleanings. And so I don’t, that’s a little bit different from everyone who might flat rate. But you can always put a caveat in there, of course, but it’s if that’s what you’re stressed out about, don’t stress about it. We are completely judgment-free. We will come in. We will do everything we can. Again, if that is your thing, if that’s not your thing, if you’re different. So again, I have a husband. He’s completely different. He would be that’s ridiculous. Of course, you clean up before the cleaners come.

Then great. He can run a different cleaning company where it’s I’m going to sell to someone just me. Of course, I clean up before the cleaners come. I don’t want to talk to them or meet them. I’ll put a key under the mat and then they come in and I just want to give a credit card and that’s it. I don’t want to talk to anyone, see anyone, that’s a completely different cleaning company. You sell to those people. I will sell to the moms who are stressed out and worried and want a checklist, and want their pets looked after and their kids’ stuffed animals arranged, all of those little things. That’s what I cared about, and that’s what I wanted, and that’s what I sell, and that’s what I communicate.

So again, there’s a million different ways of doing it, just there’s a million different cleaning business owners out there. So whatever you want from a cleaning company, I really think that’s what you need to sell, and that’s how you design your business. Don’t sell to, don’t sell to some mythical person out there, what you think people want. Sell to what you want. What seriously, what do you want?

And again, my husband, when we first met, I’ve been doing this for a while, and he’s I would never pay what you’re charging. And it was people do pay. And I had to convince him. And he’s well, I believe you. I mean, you clearly do it. It’s yes, people will pay this. Yes, they will pay it. Because again, I’m not, I’m not selling to people who have never had cleaners before. I’m selling to people who have tried the independent cleaners, who don’t show up or it’s uncomfortable because they have such this relationship, and now they’re oh, how do I tell someone?

Stephanie: Yeah, they’re an employer, almost.

Katie: Exactly, right? So it’s I’m managing them. It’s so I don’t complain. We’re best friends. I give them my clothes. I give them Christmas cards. It’s okay, or I can just call the office and say, guess what? They missed this again. Can I try a different team next week? So, again, again. There’s a million types of customers, a million different ways of doing this. So really feel what you genuinely would pay for and what would what would make you pay? Again, premium prices too, and then sell that to people. And you will find those customers so easily, again, if it’s genuine, and then that’s what you’re passionate about. You will speak that language, and again, everyone who speaks that same language as you, it’ll just naturally happen in your marketing.

Standing Out in a Crowded Market

Katie: And you’re exactly right again about especially now with AI and oh, you can just type a few things into Wix or Squarespace, and everyone gets ends up with the same website, same logo, same everything. It’s how do you expect to differentiate your cleaning company from that cleaning company, everything looks the same, everything sounds the same. It’s even worse than it was a few years ago.

So yeah, I mean, you really have to figure it out. And I mean, if you love dogs, then talk about how you’re the most pet-friendly, dog-friendly cleaning company in the world. You bring a pet-approved treat. Every time you come, you learn their names. You’ll let them out. And here’s all the precautions we take. And if you want to add a walk onto the service, or whatever it is, but you can differentiate yourself that way.

If you love kids, then what do you do for the kids? You can organize their toys when you’re there. I mean, again, there’s just limitless, limitless ways of doing this, right? So I mean, just figure it out and think about what you, again, what you would pay for, and again, I to me, it’s just, it just writes itself. I think it’s so easy once you figure out what you genuinely want and are willing to pay for, figure it out.

Stephanie: I just couldn’t agree more that it’s I find it so effortless to sell residential exactly because it’s I’m just talking to myself, basically, even though I don’t have kids yet, but it’s okay, what can I connect with that stressed-out feeling? Yeah, absolutely stress relief. And for me, I find it incredibly useful to analyze every single interaction or experience I have with any service, not just house cleaning. Of what absolutely pisses me off about this. And it’s okay, clearly, I highly value effective communication, professionalism, friendliness, right? I all of these things that I value because I’m really bothered when they are lacking in an interaction. And so it’s okay, take that and put it into your cleaning business.

Katie: Exactly, and you can learn that exactly from every interaction you have. So that being said, what you’re saying is exactly right. So I would notice it in, I mean, and I still do, of course, constantly, even though now, as a business consultant, it’s my job, really, but I always noticed it even as a young person, before I started business, and that’s probably why I was so determined that I could do it. It’s I would notice it everywhere I go.

So it was okay, I go for a massage or something. And as I’m having the massage, I’m stressed out, because I’m how do I pay for this? Do I tip? It’s I don’t, I don’t know any of these questions. Or all these questions are spinning around my head, and it’s I don’t want to be rude. I don’t know how to do, so it’s again, with, especially with residential cleaning, how do I get? How do I answer every question so they don’t have any stress whatsoever? And that, to me, was always number one. It’s how do I ensure, because, again, a customer can cancel anytime, right? There’s no guarantee leading up to this appointment that they’re even going to keep the appointment.

The Importance of Communication Systems

Katie: So how can I smooth everything over so that they don’t cancel. So again, they instantly know when they book or before they book. And then again, you have to hit them several times. So before they book, as soon as they book, automated emails, 24, 48 hours before their appointment. How to prepare for the appointment, what to expect, reminder of how they’re going to pay? How we run the credit card, or whatever it is, how do they prepare? Do they have to pick anything up? Should they make their bed? What do they do with their pets? If they have any other questions, how can they reach out to you, all of those things, right?

What if they want to add an oven cleaning at the last minute? What else could they add at the last minute? Just everything. Because, again, right at the last minute, people can get concerned and stressed out, and then oh my gosh. Oh, those cleaners are coming. Oh, right. And that’s, that’s it. And I think that intimate, and that’s where, again, I’ve analyzed this for so many years, the psychology especially, it’s there is, I can’t think of anything. I’ve never been able to think of anything that is more intimate than having a cleaner in your house. What, I mean? And again, there’s so many things that are us, we can look at five-star hotel experiences, sure, housekeeping, concierge service, yes. Lots of parallels, but that’s a hotel, all the rooms are the same, the cleanings the same, they’re not, but the towels are the same, etc, right? The standards, okay, fine, but that’s not the same. And that’s their hotel. That’s not your personal your home, yeah, right?

So and then, okay, great, we have plumbers, yeah, but they just come in and they work on your sink so you can maybe tidy up your bedroom. They have to come into your master bathroom, they’re there, and then they’re gone. That’s it. That’s very different having somebody literally come in to every square inch of your house, often while you’re not even home clean. And there is just nothing having a house cleaner. It is such a completely unique experience.

So we just have to do everything we can to make people feel comfortable. And again, we also have a bit of an uphill battle, because we often don’t have the best reputation. We’re right, the second people’s backs are turned. But sometimes our employees cut corners. Often, there’s nothing happens, yeah, of course.

Stephanie: Horror stories all the time, right? We’ve all had them. We all hear about them the second we talk to our friends about hiring a cleaning company. People have horror stories, right?

Katie: So there’s just so much that we have to do as cleaning business owners. And again, I think it all comes down to just communication. And again, it’s corporate communication. So effective pieces, effective emails, little PDFs that we attach to emails that they can download and read while they’re at work. And say, okay, yeah, I’m going to prepare. I have all my questions answered, excellent websites, all of that stuff. It’s really, really simple. And again, once it’s set up, it’s there, and it just works for you 24 hours a day.

The Power of Checklists

Katie: And again, excuse me, I’ve been saying this for at least, I mean, it’s been 10 years now for Glisten Academy, 10 years I’ve been saying checklist, checklist, checklist. Yeah, I still, I still have never received even a checklist in my life from any cleaning company. And I have lived in several cities now, hired all cleaning companies. No one gives me a checklist. And a lot of people I work with still don’t leave checklists, or even have digital checklists or anything, right? And it’s that goes so far in informing customers what you’re doing.

Customers have no clue. We think they do. We think they know how hard we work. They don’t know. And again, the thing with cleaning is it’s an invisible thing. They don’t know that you dusted the vents, because the dust isn’t there. And especially people who aren’t great cleaners themselves. They don’t know. They don’t know the 100-point things that you did. So if we don’t explain that to them, they just don’t have a clue.

So there’s so much that we can inform them. And even little things oh, we don’t charge a travel fee. Or we don’t charge this, or all that stuff. It’s oh, right, I never thought about that. But yeah, they have to drive all the way to my house, I never thought of that. All these things are included in the cost. So anything you can do to, again, just communicate and educate your customers, just it. I mean, that’s, that’s just what I do, and that’s what makes you stand out so much, and again, ultimately command the best prices, and people will pay for that.

Stephanie: As absolutely and really, what you’re talking about is communicating value, because it’s regardless if the value is there or not, if you are not communicating that to the customer proactively, before we even close the deal, I’m so happy you said checklist. All of our listeners are Stephanie, you beat our heads against the wall about checklist, but it is the number one reason Serene Clean grew the way it did. I swear to God, is we have this checklist right? Because it’s this cornerstone, this foundation of this is what we do. And from a training perspective, from a quality control perspective, from a sales perspective, a checklist is so integral.

There is a whole book I read once. I think it might be called checklist, I don’t even know, but it’s literally, because it’s it seems the silliest thing on earth. And again, I’m such a digital person, too. But there are certain times where it’s just a piece of paper is the most effective thing on earth. And this book was even just about, it was about neurosurgeons use checklists in the operating theater. You have to, there is nothing more effective than a simple checklist. And again, when it’s about, to me, it’s about accountability.

Katie: And again, even me, often, if I’m sneaking into a customer’s house. I know they’re not home, and it’s I’m just doing a quality check. If I know that I have to sign off on it, Katie, who was this approved by? And I have to put my name on there. Did I really check? Do I have to go check that shower again? If I’m going to put my name on there, you better believe I’m going back up and I’m checking. So I just think it’s really important, and again, that whole idea of teaching people what clean is and explaining to customers what we’re doing, I just think is so important.

And that’s where it kind of leads back to your earlier statement, too, about I’m the customer now. And I’m exactly the customer who doesn’t clean very much. And I will look at a bathtub and honestly not even know if it’s dirty. I literally, I don’t know. So if someone comes in and cleans my bathtub, I don’t know what they did. I don’t know if they cleaned it or not. Now I know it’s clean when I get in and it feels clean, but if I’m just walking by it, I actually don’t even notice. So I really need someone to tell me what they cleaned. So it’s not obvious to everyone when something has been cleaned because it’s not obvious to me. So I need someone to explain to me what they did.

Learning from a Major Fraud Case

Stephanie: Absolutely. And it’s you’re in a position right now where you do have other people doing the work, and that’s where, honestly, a lot of our listeners are, right? So I’d love to hear about, have you had any major quality control issues? How do you stay on top of that across multiple locations, multiple countries? What does that look?

Katie: Yes, that’s a huge issue for me right now. So I will say right off the bat, I had, and this is ongoing, so I had a pretty significant fraud from one of my managers. So I have an ongoing court case. She actually gets sentenced on December 12th. So it’s very real and very recent. And it’s been going on for about two and a half years. And this was a person who worked for me, for many, many years. And again, completely trusted manager, great with the staff, great with communication, and was essentially embezzling money over a long period of time, and it was tens of thousands of dollars.

And it got to the point where again, and this is someone I would have trusted with my life. And then all of a sudden it was very clear that, what was going on. So when you ask how do I, how do I ensure quality? How do I ensure that I, someone’s not, again, ripping me off? What, what can I do? Well, I didn’t, so I’m not the person to ask, right?

Because I didn’t know. And I think this is where for myself, I really learned, and that’s where I think mystery shoppers are so important, and I wasn’t doing that. And I think if I had had, and I’m lucky in that my actual cleaners, as far as I know, are great and do a great job. But as far as the management of the company, that’s where I really dropped the ball is not having, even just the front end with the phone calls and the estimates. I didn’t have mystery shoppers on any of that. So I had no idea what my customers were experiencing when they called in or when they got quotes or what they were being told.

So I really, I really regret that. And that’s something that, and again, even just from the cleaning itself too. If I had had ongoing mystery shops, where it’s this is what I did. This is what I booked. This is what happened. These are the cleaners who came. This is what they did. This is how I paid. Or even I’d had mystery shoppers who were I asked for a quote. This is what happened. If I had that any feedback, maybe I would have caught it much, much earlier, but I didn’t.

So there was definitely things that I thought, oh, or again, even with residential right now, I have a bit of a different setup with one of my US-based businesses. And it’s I have no clue. Again, the churn rate with new customers is very, very different from what I’m used to, and it’s a bit of a different business model. And it’s I don’t believe for a second that those that those cleaners aren’t potentially making side deals all the time with those people, because the numbers, it just doesn’t make sense to me.

So again, it’s okay, do I again, how do I start figuring out what’s going on? Right? So when people know that those customers might be telling you specifically working for you, and telling you what’s going on. Hey, did you know that? Because, I mean, I’ve had that in the past for sure, without even mystery shoppers saying to me, oh, just so, your cleaner offered to come in and do this for cash, right?

The Reality of Staff Management

Katie: And again, it’s not the worst thing in the world. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t think that anybody can enforce non-compete clauses anymore. I don’t think that exists, right, so in either country. So it’s the cost of doing business. And we all can understand that sometimes part of doing business is we have to understand that it can be an introductory service to some degree. That’s just the reality.

So then, what can we do as business owners? Well, we have to make sure that we want our clients to work with us. So not to hire people on the side, our own staff, and we want our staff to work for us and not make side deals with our customers, right? So that, again, that’s a whole other thing that we have to do. And you can’t stop people right from from doing what they want to do.

But what can we do as both finding customers who aren’t interested in that, and again, if you have that luxury cleaning business model, you will have customers who aren’t interested in making side cash deals. They’re not looking for that with with your, with your employees, or with anyone, right? They want to go through a reputable company. They’ve already tried all that, or they’re just not interested, right? So that’s what, what the aim is, for sure.

Stephanie: Yeah, and I always make the joke of, at any given time, I’m probably training one of my competitors, because that happens, to do that, and that’s, and that’s right, and, I mean, and there’s nothing, yeah, wrong with that.

Katie: I mean, actually a lot of, a lot of the original, because my company back in Edmonton was quite small, I would say I only ever had 10, as only five teams of two, thing. And I think almost every single one of those people is still running their own cleaning company after, today, they all, people scattered throughout the country and stuff. I’ve got one out in Halifax, Jen, she’s still running an incredibly successful company. I mean, I think that’s great. Again, we can’t, right? We don’t want to just people.

Stephanie: No, exactly, right. I mean, that’s, that’s that’s insane, right, of course. And I mean, look at me. I mean, I only did marketing for three years before I went on, started a cleaning company. And right? So nobody back at my old organization’s mad at me for doing that, right? So you have to, you have to be very realistic as to what business and again, you can’t, yeah. I mean, that would be a very immature, I guess, way of looking at really, what you talked about, of okay, most, frankly, a lot of the cleaners that we have that are going to go branch out and do their own thing, they’re most they’re might not have the business savvy, right? So if we have the business savvy and can just focus on what we can differentiate compared to an individual cleaner, which most they are going to remain an individual cleaner. Well, then it’s not competition, it’s fine. They’re going to be selling to different people, right? So absolutely, I just don’t concern myself about.

The Challenge of Managing Staff

Katie: You can’t, because, again, I think the biggest difference, and I mean, a lot of people call themselves an entrepreneur, but it’s and I hear it all the time or see it all the time, but it’s until you have staff, once you have actual staff that you have to manage and you have to train and you have to teach and you have to, that is where everything changes, right? And that’s where you’re just it’s a completely different thing. Of course, when you, and I don’t think a lot of people plan on that. I never planned on being a boss. I didn’t know that one day this was going to be what I was, what I was going to be. I didn’t know this. So I had never been a boss. I’d been a coach. I coached swimming for a long time and and things, but I was never a boss of people.

And so for a long time, I had to figure that out. It’s how do I teach people and train them and motivate them and teach them how to clean? And again, that was everyone thinks, not everyone, but it’s you think, okay, well, I’m an excellent cleaner. So again, once we were excellent cleaners. Now it should be easy. We just hire all these people and we just show them how to clean. This should be so easy. And it’s of course, that was not easy at all. That took years and years to figure out, and we had to figure out how to teach people now how to clean. So how do you clean professionally? Okay, let’s figure that out. And now and then everything else on top of that, because it’s not only do you have to teach people to clean, and I always say that, it’s if everyone could just show up and do their job, I’d be a millionaire.

Stephanie: Right. If everyone would just show up on time.

Katie: So it’s, so there’s that. And then, of course, there’s the interpersonal stuff. So do they get along? Do they not get along? And then, of course, then you have to, when you have staff, then you have to become a police officer, essentially. So someone stole something. And so now, okay, what do we do? Well, now you’re contacting the police. Now you’re, and then you have to fire someone, and it’s okay. Is that person going to sue you for wrongful termination? And they and, sure, you know what the laws are in your in your state or or province or wherever you are? But just because doesn’t mean they’re not going to sue you anyway.

So then are you going to spend all this time and money and energy fighting that? And okay, so as you get bigger and bigger, you have an HR department. So who is your HR department? Well, maybe it’s you. And then, okay, so that person sued you for wrongful termination. Okay, so now how many hours and 1000s of dollars are you spending on that fighting that or are you going to settle?

And then okay, so maybe you win that. And then, okay, well, what about this person who got injured on the job? Well, you know, you have worker’s comp, so that’s okay. But okay, so then there’s that whole thing. And then, okay, but now they’re, now they say you didn’t do enough, whatever. And okay, so now what are you doing with that? And then, of course, and then, okay, so maybe you’re a couple months into having employees. And then, okay, now you got to deal with payroll. Well, okay, so are you on top of that? And then, okay, how is your bookkeeping? And then, of course, we all heard about COVID. We all know this stuff. But did you apply for all the grants and everything correctly? Did you give everybody the right paperwork?

I mean, there is just, it’s relentless. And that is, I think, where people, when people are just like, oh, I’m just going to hire my friend, and we’re just going to do this. I’m okay, sure. But just so aware that once you start bringing employees on, it becomes an entirely different animal. And, and yeah, so that’s, I think that’s so important. And I just think, again, I just, for me, personally, I do not hire friends or family because I think that’s a complete disaster for me, personally.

I know that works for some people, for sure. But personally, I’ve tried it once, and it was a disaster, and I will never do it again. And that’s, and it was fine, but it just, I just, again, once you cross that line where they’re employees and you’re the employer, it’s very hard to go back. And I, and I don’t know, I just, for me, I just never want to be in that position where, where I’m the bad guy to, you know, to people I care about. So, so I think I’m just going to keep my professional life and my personal life.

Stephanie: That’s boundary, though, is so hard for so many people. I think it’s, especially early on, where it’s the people that you trust that believe in your dream are the people who are close to you, right? So I think early on, it’s a lot easier to fall into that trap of friends and family. And not to say that it will always end in disaster, but I, yeah.

Katie: Of course, and I actually think early on, I think, is maybe even when it could be okay, because it’s nobody’s making any money, anyway, and nobody has a mortgage payment. And so if it doesn’t work out, it’s all kind of whatever. But when it’s years down the line, and someone is depending on you for their mortgage payment and their kid’s daycare and all that stuff, and then you have to fire them, that’s really hard. Or they quit on you, and then you have a contract that you have to fill tomorrow, and you have no idea who’s going to cover it.

Like, I just think the stakes get higher and higher as as your company becomes more and more successful. So I think, yeah, so again, I always, what I always talk about too, is again, and it’s such a double-edged sword. Like, I love having managers, and I have great managers now who are like just absolutely fantastic. But again, they have a lot of power. And as I just experienced with, you know, with this whole fraud that I went through and, you know, so that person is someone I trusted with everything. And my business is my life. I mean, this is, this is everything to me. This is, this is my whole life.

So to have someone who you trust so much betray you like that, and to do all these things and to, and to lie and to steal and to just, I mean, it’s beyond, it’s so hurtful. I mean, it really is. And so that’s where, you know, again, like, I want to trust people and I want to believe that everyone is good. And I, and I do believe that most people are, but most is not all. And so, you know, you just have to protect yourself in business. And again, and that’s where having, I think mystery shoppers too, but also just having really good accountants and, you know, and really being aware of your money and your accounts and everything. And, yeah.

Building a Multi-Location Business

Stephanie: So, so let’s move into that a little bit. So, okay, you have locations in Canada and in the US. How, let’s just start with like, talk me through those transitions and how, operationally, are they running the same? Are they different business models? Like, what does that look?

Katie: So I have I have, I started in Edmonton, Alberta, which is in western Canada. And then from there, about, I guess now it’s probably six years ago, I would say. I think it’s about six years now. Yeah, six years. I relocated to Ontario, so still in Canada, but moved provinces. And then from there, I was in marketing for a real estate company, actually. And then I ended up buying a cleaning company that was up for sale in the area. So I bought that company and then merged my existing company into that company.

So that was really my first sort of like, okay, we’re, we’re sort of trying a different thing here. And, you know, learning. I learned a lot from that for sure. And then so we’re, so that that company is in Ontario. I, you know, that has grown significantly since then. And then, okay, so then from there, I started another company in Windsor, which is another city in Ontario, in Canada. So that’s another location. That’s a slightly different business model, again, which is more commercial. And that’s, and that’s custodians for, for schools and things.

And so that’s, that was again, that was during COVID, actually. So that was when everything locked down. So we had like four days notice to lock everything down. And so, you know, instantly, everything, everyone, all our clients canceled instantly. It was just absolutely, like, unbelievable. But I didn’t lay anyone off. So I just, I kept paying everyone. And, you know, I mean, I was trying to apply for all the government grants and stuff, whatever. And, but I just sort of, we were all on standby for about two months. And so I just sort of floated it for a couple months while we waited. And eventually everything kind of came back. Most clients came back. You know, we lost, I think we lost about, like 20, 25% of our overall, like recurring revenue. But most people came back.

But during that time, I thought, you know what, we should be, I should be trying to get commercial contracts. We should be bidding on stuff. And so I started just with, with custodian work, which was in schools, which I’d never done. And, but it was something I was very interested in. And so that’s when I started in Windsor, which is where I’m from originally. So went back, full circle. And so I started that company there, which is, which is all commercial.

And then from there, again, Windsor is right on the border of the US. So then I started, you know, thinking, well, maybe I could, you know, try the States. And so I have an investor visa to be in the States. And, and so part of that was purchasing a company. So I purchased a company in Washington, DC, which was part of how I got my investor visa. So that’s how I got into the US market. And now I’m in Texas. So I’m in Houston now. And I’m looking at, you know, potentially starting here too. So that’s that’s where we are now. So all these locations, yeah.

Stephanie: So, I mean, that’s wild. Yeah. Just from my perspective. Are they all LLCs? Are they all separate entities?

Katie: Yes, they’re all separate, yeah. So different, different LLCs. Yes, absolutely. So, you know, so the Canadian ones are Canadian corporations. And then the US ones are, are LLCs, yeah. So, yeah, they’re all they’re all separate.

Different Business Models for Different Markets

Stephanie: And then, so, okay, so you have, obviously, the Windsor one is commercial, schools. What is the Ontario one versus the DC one?

Katie: So Ontario is all residential. So that’s all, that’s all, that’s pretty much exclusively luxury residential. So, you know, that’s, again, that’s NHL players. That’s, you know, that’s the, the luxury market. Which, you know, which was what the company I bought was. So I just kind of continued that. And so that’s, that’s all recurring residential. And, and so that’s, you know, I have about 25 to 30 staff in Ontario. And then in Washington, DC, that’s about half. So that’s about 15 staff. And that’s, that’s government contracts. So that’s, again, that’s that’s all commercial. That’s all, that’s mainly government. So that’s, that’s municipal buildings and things that. So again, completely different, completely different everything.

Stephanie: So you’re touching each industry.

Katie: Yeah, kind of. And then Edmonton is, again, commercial as well. But that’s, that’s more like, like med spas and things that. So, so that’s that’s again, that’s the original company. But that’s, that has changed now too. So we don’t do residential in Edmonton anymore. So that’s all, that’s all medical and, and commercial and stuff. And so yeah, so that’s, that’s, so we have about, I think about four or five staff there now in Edmonton. So, yeah. So that’s kind of how it is.

Stephanie: And then, so across all of them, how, how many total staff do you?

Katie: About 30, I would say. Yeah, about 30. Yeah. So 25 to 30, I think in Ontario. And then like 15 in DC. Yeah. And then like four or five in Edmonton. And then like five in Windsor. So, yeah, so about, yeah, I don’t know, like 45 to 50, I guess total.

Stephanie: That’s so, and you’re managing all of this, like remotely for the most part.

Katie: Yes, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I have managers in each location. So I’m definitely not doing day to day. But yeah, absolutely. I mean, like the books and like payroll and like all that stuff. Like, yeah, that’s, that’s that’s all me. Or, or like, again, I have virtual assistants and accountants and all that stuff. But, but yeah, they all like report to me and I’m, I’m definitely the one signing off on everything.

The Challenges of Government Contracts

Stephanie: Yeah. So, okay, the DC one, because I’ve never personally got into government contracts. Talk to me about how that is different than like getting a regular commercial building or, you know, like, because I know there’s a lot of red tape. That’s, I think what scares most people. Talk me through that.

Katie: Oh, yeah, there’s a lot. There’s so much, like, ongoing compliance. So, like, first, like getting the contracts is, is actually quite, I would say, like learning how to navigate that system is tricky. So there’s lots, yeah, like, you know, getting on all the procurement sites and like understanding how to respond to RFPs and, you know, all of that. But, but then once you, once you win a contract, then you have, you know, then you just have, like, it’s just so much paperwork and reporting. And, you know, you have to do, like, you have to do, like, audits and, you know, you have to, like, show that you’re following, like, all these, like, you know, labor laws. And, you know, you have to show that you’re, like, paying, like, you know, prevailing wage or living wage or, you know, all these different, like, requirements.

And then, you know, and then there’s, like, insurance requirements. And then there’s, you know, bonding. And then, you know, so you have to, like, you know, you have to be bonded. So that’s, you know, that’s like another layer of, like, financial, like, you know, like security that you have to have. And then, you know, and then there’s, you know, then there’s just, like, the day to day of, like, okay, well, you know, they, they require, like, certain reporting. And then, you know, sometimes they have, like, surprise inspections. And, you know, all these things.

So it’s, it’s definitely, it’s definitely like a different, like a different world for sure. But I, I do think it’s, it’s great. I mean, the, the benefit of government contracts is they’re very stable. Like, you know, like, they don’t, they don’t just cancel on you. And they pay, they pay really well. And, you know, and they pay on time. So, so that’s, I mean, that’s, that’s fantastic. But the trade-off is just there’s a lot of, a lot of, like, you know, like oversight and, and, you know, like compliance and things you have to do. So, yeah.

Stephanie: And is it usually, like, are these contracts yearly? Are they multi-year? Like, what does that look?

Katie: Yeah, so they’re usually, they’re usually like, they’ll be like a, like a one-year contract with, like, options to renew. So, like, you know, it’ll be like a one-year contract with, you know, four, one-year options or something that. So, so it’s, it’s, you know, so in theory, you could have, you know, a five-year contract, but it’s, but it’s like, you know, they have the option each year to, you know, to renew or not. So, so yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, so you have to, like, perform. You have to, like, you know, like, maintain quality. And, you know, and then, yeah, they’ll, they’ll continue to renew. So, yeah.

Advice on Niching

Stephanie: Yeah. So across all of these, I’d love to hear your opinion on, like, niching. Because you have, you have tested different things in different areas. And so, like, what is your advice for people when it comes to, like, figuring out if I’m going to niche, like, how do I know what to niche into? Like, should I test multiple things? Because you’ve done all of them, right? So, like, what’s, what’s your advice on?

Katie: Well, I mean, I think, I think one of the, one of the challenges with, with saying, like, niche is, is sometimes I think people feel like they have to, like, pick one thing and, and just do that forever. And I just, I don’t, I don’t think that’s, I don’t think that’s realistic. And I don’t think that’s, you know, I think you should be fluid in business. And I think you should, you know, be willing to, you know, to pivot and to change and to try new things. And, and so, you know, I think, you know, I started with residential. And, you know, that was great. And I loved it. And, you know, and then, you know, I tried commercial. And, you know, and I love that too.

And so, and then, you know, tried different things within commercial. So, you know, tried, you know, med spas and tried, you know, government buildings and, you know, all these different things. And so I think, you know, I think it’s important to, to try things and to see what, you know, what works and what, you know, what you enjoy and what, you know, what’s profitable and what, you know, all of that. But I also think it’s important to not, you know, to not be so rigid that you, you know, that you can’t, you know, you can’t change your mind or you can’t, you know, you can’t evolve. So, so I think, you know, I think, you know, definitely try different things. See what, you know, see what works. But also, you know, be willing to, you know, to say, you know what, this isn’t working anymore. Or, you know, this, this market’s changed. Or, you know, whatever. And, and be willing to, to pivot.

And I think that’s, you know, I think that’s one of the benefits of, of being an entrepreneur is you, you do have that flexibility. So, so, you know, use it. And, and yeah, so I, I don’t know. I just, I think, I think it’s important to, to be open-minded and to, to try things. And, and yeah, I mean, I’ve, I’ve definitely, you know, I’ve done move-out cleaning. I’ve done post-construction. I’ve, you know, I’ve done all, all these different things. And, you know, some of it I really enjoyed. Some of it I didn’t. Some of it was really profitable. Some of it wasn’t. And so, you know, you just, you just kind of figure it out as you go. And, and yeah.

Stephanie: So would you say that most of those, like, niche changes have been like opportunistic? Like, meaning like, oh, this opportunity came up and so we took it. Or was it more like, I’m going to strategically go after this, this market?

Katie: I think a bit of both. I think, you know, I think some of it was, was definitely opportunistic. Like, you know, like someone, you know, like, oh, we need, you know, we need someone to clean our, you know, our med spa. And I’m okay, sure. Like, let’s, let’s try it. And, you know, and then, okay, that worked out great. So then we, you know, we got more med spas. And then, you know, and then it kind of, kind of became a thing.

And then other times it was more strategic where it’s I want to, you know, I want to try to get into government contracts. So I’m going to, you know, I’m going to learn how to do that. And I’m going to, you know, I’m going to start bidding on things. And, you know, and so, so yeah, I think it’s, it’s a bit of both. I think, you know, sometimes opportunities present themselves and you just, you know, you just go for it. And other times you’re, you’re more strategic and you’re, you’re, you know, you’re targeting specific things.

Dealing with Imposter Syndrome

Stephanie: Yeah. And I think that’s, I think that’s a good, a good way to, to approach it. Because I think sometimes people can get, like, paralyzed by, by trying to, like, pick the perfect niche. And it’s you don’t know until you try. So, so yeah. So talk to me about, like, imposter syndrome. Because you’re, you’re operating at a, at a very high level. You’re, you’re managing multiple locations, multiple countries, multiple, you know, business models. Do you still struggle with imposter syndrome? Like, what does that look for you?

Katie: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that’s, that’s something that I don’t think ever goes away. I mean, I, I definitely still, you know, I still question myself all the time. And I still, you know, I still think, you know, am I, you know, am I doing this right? Or, you know, should I be doing something different? Or, you know, all of that. And I think, you know, I think it’s, it’s normal. And I think it’s, you know, I think it’s, it’s actually probably healthy to some degree because I think it keeps you, you know, it keeps you humble and it keeps you, you know, keeps you always trying to, to improve and to, to get better.

But yeah, I mean, I definitely, you know, I definitely still struggle with it. And, you know, and I think, you know, especially when you’re, when you’re in, you know, in new markets or trying new things or, you know, working with, you know, working with, you know, high-level clients or, you know, government contracts or whatever. It’s, you know, it’s, there’s always that, that little voice in your head that’s am I, you know, am I good enough? Or, you know, do I, do I know what I’m doing? Or, you know, all of that.

But I think, you know, I think the key is just to, to push through it and to, you know, to keep going. And, and yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I think having, having a good support system too is really important. So, you know, having, you know, having other business owners that you can talk to and, you know, and kind of, you know, share experiences with and, you know, and realize that, you know, everyone’s going through the same thing. So, so yeah, I think that’s, that’s really important.

The Reality of Hard Work

Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s, you know, one of the things I, I love about, you know, doing this podcast is, is hearing from other business owners and realizing we’re all going through the same stuff. Like, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s not just me. Like, everyone’s, everyone’s struggling with the same things. And so, yeah, that’s, that’s really helpful.

So, okay, so one last thing I want to, to touch on before we, we wrap up is, is just, like, the reality of, of the work. Because I think, you know, when people see someone like you who’s, who’s built this, this incredible business across multiple locations, multiple countries, I think sometimes people think, oh, that must be, you must have it all figured out. You must, you know, it must be, it must be easy now. Like, talk to me about, like, the reality of, of the work that goes into, into maintaining and growing a business at this level.

Katie: Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s constant work. I mean, there’s, there’s no, there’s no, like, oh, I’ve made it and now I can just, you know, coast. It’s, it’s, it’s constant. And, you know, and I think, you know, the bigger you get, the more, the more complicated things become and the more, you know, the more you have to, to manage and the more, you know, the more things that can go wrong. And so, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely, it’s definitely not, you know, it’s not easy.

And, you know, I think, I think people sometimes see, you know, see the, see the end result and they think, oh, that must be, that must be nice. But they don’t see all the, all the, you know, all the work that goes into it and all the, all the, you know, all the stress and all the, you know, all the sleepless nights and all the, you know, all the things that, that, you know, that you go through to, to get there and to, to maintain it.

So, yeah, I mean, I, I definitely, you know, I definitely work, you know, I work a lot. And, you know, and I’m, I’m very, very hands-on still. And, you know, even though I have managers and, you know, and I have staff and all that, I’m, I’m still, you know, I’m still very involved in, in everything. And, you know, and I think that’s, I think that’s important. I think, you know, I think as a business owner, you, you have to be, you have to be willing to, to put in the work. And, you know, and it’s, it’s not, it’s not a, you know, it’s not a passive income thing. It’s, it’s, it’s very, very active. And, you know, and it requires, you know, a lot of, a lot of time and a lot of, you know, a lot of energy.

Glisten Academy and What’s Next

Stephanie: Yeah, absolutely. So, okay, so let’s, let’s talk about Glisten Academy. Because obviously, you know, you have this, this incredible business that you’ve built. And then you also have Glisten Academy, which is, which is your, your training and coaching platform. So talk to me about, about that and, and what, what that looks like and, and what you offer there.

Katie: Yeah, so Glisten Academy, I, I started that, actually, I think it was 2015. So it’s been, it’s been about 10 years now. And, and it started because I was, I was getting so many questions from other cleaning business owners about, you know, how do you do this? How do you do that? You know, what, what software do you use? You know, how do you train? You know, all these different questions. And so I thought, you know what, I should, I should create, you know, some sort of, you know, training program or, or something to, to help people.

And so, so I started with just, like, a, like a staff training course. So it was just, like, how do you train your cleaners? And, and that was, that was the first thing. And then from there, it just, it kind of grew. And so now we have, you know, we have, like, a full business accelerator program. We have, you know, mystery shopper courses. We have, you know, manager training. We have, you know, all these different things. And, you know, we have, like, over 6,000 students now, which is just, it’s incredible.

And, you know, and so, you know, I, I really, really love, love teaching and love, you know, love helping other business owners. And, you know, and I think, you know, the cleaning industry is just, it’s such a great industry. And I just, I just want to, you know, I want to help as many people as possible to, to be successful in it. So, so yeah, so that’s, that’s what Glisten Academy is. And, you know, and we, we offer, you know, all these different courses and, you know, coaching and, you know, all that stuff. So, yeah.

Stephanie: That’s amazing. And so, and so obviously you’re, you’re, you’re very passionate about, about teaching and, and helping other business owners. So what, what does, what does 2026 look for you? What are, what are your goals for, for next year?

Katie: Yeah, I would say, definitely getting launched here in Texas. That would be, that would be it. It would be really fun. Again. I’ve been so running things remotely, for so long now. So again, my head is always picturing Ontario, picturing Edmonton, picturing Washington. My head’s always there. But I’m actually here, so it would be really nice to to get some stuff going here too. And then again, just keep growing. Keep growing everywhere else too, because, and I fly around quite a lot. It’s easy from, from Houston too. So we, we visit our other locations a lot. So yeah, just keep growing everywhere.

And yeah, I mean, it’s definitely a different phase, right, getting a much bigger company and other layers of management. So that’s all new to me too at a different phase, I guess, of my own career is having more layers of management as well within my own company. So I would say bringing in definitely more managers and more administrative help as well. So I have more virtual assistants and things these days and again, just scaling as much as I can, while still being very, very involved. So yeah, that’ll be a little bit different, but yeah, just, I guess that growth. Yeah.

Final Thoughts

Stephanie: I’m literally so inspired talking to you. You are just an incredible woman, and I hope you’re as proud of your work as you should be, because that is no easy feat to to accomplish. And I would love to have you on because I’m absolutely.

Katie: But we’ll definitely have to talk again. Yeah, Texas is going, yeah, absolutely. So well, that gives me a goal.

Stephanie: I’d love to have something to report. Yes, ma’am, other than Glisten Academy. Where can people find you? Do you have social media that you want us to link?

Katie: Yes, absolutely. I mean Glisten Academy. I think it’s Glisten dot cleaning Academy. Glisten dot cleaning dot Academy. I think for TikTok and Instagram, I’m not as active on there as I’d to be, of course, because I’m so so in the trenches, still with everything. But and people can definitely email me, katie@glistenacademy.com anytime. I’m very, very open to talking and to helping people. Anytime anyone wants any advice, feel free to send me an email. I’m always open to answering. I’ll answer any email I get. Give you any advice I can.

Yeah, I mean, that’s definitely, probably the easiest way. I have an an assistant as well who does check all my emails to make sure I don’t miss anything. So I definitely will, will answer any email I get. So that’s probably the easiest way to get a hold of me. For sure.

Stephanie: Very generous. We’ll definitely link all of that information down below on the description. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Stephanie, nice to talk.

Katie: Yeah, this has been amazing. You’re just you’re an amazing woman. I’m just so impressed. Thank you.

Stephanie: And guys. Leave Katie some love down in the comments. Hit that subscribe and reach out to her if you’re so inclined. Make sure you use that discount code FILTHY50 to get 50% off from her, and we will see you in the next episode of Filthy Rich Cleaners, bye, guys, thanks.

Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity and readability.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• Glisten Academy – Use discount code: FILTHY50 to get 50% off all Glisten Academy courses
• Email: katie@glistenacademy.com
• Find Glisten Academy on Instagram and TikTok
• ZenMaid

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