Live Coaching Call: Navigating Your First Few Months in Business with Gentry Hunter

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Introduction

Stephanie: Welcome or welcome back to the Filthy Rich Cleaners. I’m your host, Stephanie Pipkin from Serene Clean, and today’s episode is going to be pretty incredible. It is with one of our listeners, who kindly agreed to being a guest on Filthy Rich Cleaners. This is Gentry Hunter. She is the owner and founder of 2.0 Cleaning in Austin, Texas, and she has quite the amazing story that I want you guys to hear. Additionally, we’re going to be jumping in and answering some of the dilemmas and struggles that she is dealing with in her business, because she’s still very new in business, and this is why I wanted her as a guest, so that we can all learn and grow as a group and community. So thank you, Gentry. Thank you so much for joining.

Gentry: Yes, I’m so excited to be here.

From Teaching to Cleaning Business

Stephanie: Tell us what you used to do and how you got into cleaning.

Gentry: Yes, my name is Gentry Patrice Hunter. I’m from Austin, Texas. I was a teacher and a social worker, working two jobs at the same time while going to school. I was so tired of just, you know, when you’re a teacher, they tell you exactly how much you’re going to make every year for the rest of your life, until you retire, and even after retirement, how much they’ll give you. There’s no money in teaching, and there’s not much money in social work. Also, it just wasn’t a very positive environment. The children were positive, but in general, teaching was not what I wanted to do.

My family has a real estate and brokerage company. A lot of them do real estate development, so I always heard them talk about finding cleaners for move-in, move-outs, finding cleaners for post-construction. Real estate and cleaning go hand in hand. So I thought, if I don’t want to do real estate, maybe I’ll do cleaning.

Stephanie: That’s amazing. Really seeing that there’s a need. When you did make that pivot and decision, considering how much you had put into your education and learning how to teach and all of the certifications that go along with it, how difficult was it for you to make that change emotionally? Was that a big step for you?

Gentry: It was very difficult. My husband is the main reason why we really took a look at what I’m going to do as a career. He’s a project manager, and project managing has a lot to do with cleaning, so he kind of made me feel confident in making a transition and us starting a business together.

Of course, I love the children. I love giving back, and it was devastating to walk away from that profession. However, when I saw one episode where you were talking about the ways that you use cleaning to give back, that definitely made me feel better, like, okay, there’s a way that I can do both and still survive financially.

Finding Your Brand Identity

Stephanie: Absolutely, and just reading about your dedication to community and giving, I really want to delve into that in this discussion. There’s a lot of competition in Austin, and what we need to lean into is Gentry’s secret sauce, which is kind of what mine is – that community involvement. You love your community, and that should be your brand. It should be where it’s just pouring out of everything that you put out into the world: “I love my community, and this is how I serve it in this specific way.”

I really think leaning into that because it’s authentic, and anytime authenticity is at the forefront, people can feel that. Obviously, you connected to me because it’s not like I’m just saying it – the proof is in the pudding. This is what we do with all of our time and resources.

To be clear, that has built over time. It’s not like I could do all of these things on day one, but as time and opportunities have arisen, it’s like, okay, we should do this, we should do this, and you just kind of add to it. The fact is that you’re already thinking of this at your early stage – how long have you been at it?

Gentry: I started on Halloween. So I’ve been at it like three months, four months.

Early Business Growth

Stephanie: Wow, this is amazing, because I love that you’re already thinking of this so early. Your website looks pretty darn good, considering you’re new. Did you do that yourself?

Gentry: No, I hired someone on Fiverr.

Stephanie: Great tip right there – you can really have a beautiful website built pretty inexpensively in that manner. So far, what has been going well?

Gentry: What’s been going well is similar to what you told me just now – I am the brand. My husband is the brand. What’s been going well is door-to-door. Whenever I do door-to-door for businesses, I was impressed with the amount of interest that I got, as far as being able to do a walk-through, being able to speak to the person I need to speak to. So that’s what’s going well, is just my personality being attached to the business.

Approaching Commercial Clients

Stephanie: Absolutely, especially with commercial. I think people get so afraid to do what you’re discussing, which is outbound, attempting to create those connections, which is exactly how I would recommend getting commercial clients. It’s walking in there, introducing yourself, being friendly, and making that connection. It does take multiple tries, for sure, but if you are tying your personality to the brand, and you’re the face of the brand, that can be a wonderful thing, especially when it’s such a pretty face.

As for residential, how are you getting residential clients right now?

Gentry: So residential, I’m getting strictly through word of mouth. I started in October, the last day of October. November I was just building the website, so I wasn’t even trying to get clients in November. December and January, I was hyper-focused on door-to-door for commercial. I didn’t do anything for residential.

This past month was when I first started getting my residential clients strictly through word of mouth, through people I know posting my business on different platforms and in condos, apartments, those type of WhatsApps, and then people would call the business, and that’s how I was getting residential so far.

Managing Staff and Employees

Stephanie: Who has been doing the cleanings as of yet?

Gentry: I have two employees. I’m trying to think, because I just fired one, so I have had three, and they do the cleanings. Of course, because I’m so new, I have had to step in when the clock is running to get through the job. But so far, I have two employees, and then myself and my husband help out.

Stephanie: Okay, gotcha. And those are actual W-2s or ICs?

Gentry: W-2 part-time.

Stephanie: Awesome. Great to hear that. Obviously, I’m most familiar with W-2s so I’m glad to hear that’s how you’re handling it. How has that been? It’s often a total mess in the beginning with employees. So how are you doing?

Early Employee Challenges

Gentry: Oh my gosh, I was going through it. I think Monday, we fired someone, or Tuesday. I was going through it. I was like, how am I even going to talk about and be happy? Because it was so hard on me emotionally. I remember you sharing a story about how fragile you were in the beginning, and I was like, I don’t know if I’m fragile, but I’m definitely fragile, because it bothered me.

Stephanie: It feels so personal, because it’s like they’re rejecting you, and even though that’s not the case, like this has nothing to do with you most likely.

Gentry: Okay. So I hired a total of three employees, gradually, not at the same time. One of them, she’s very pleasant, amazing. My second employee, I hired her when I was in a bind. So that’s always the first red flag. I hired her despite some red flags on her background, because it was all the way from 2017. And part of being a business owner is being able to give people a second chance, as I’m sure you’re familiar with.

Stephanie: Plenty of our employees have backgrounds. Let’s just say that.

Gentry: Yeah, we run checks. As long as it’s nothing violent or theft or burglary, I’ll give you a second chance. And she worked for us for three days, a total of three days, and was late for an hour one day, late for 20 minutes another day, complaining about how she doesn’t get paid enough for this and that. I pay $15.85 an hour, just so you guys know, and I start off paying that – you can grow from there, but that’s the base price and that’s the market rate.

So it didn’t work out. But the reason why it didn’t go well is just because after her firing, she’s texting us, she’s threatening us, she’s saying she’s going to post bad reviews on the business and get other people to do it as well. So it was just very stressful for me, but I made it through. I mean, I think we’re good now, hopefully.

Stephanie: That blackmailing from former employees is not an uncommon experience, especially when they’re, frankly, not good people. We’ve also been told, “We’re gonna get sued, I’m gonna talk to my lawyer.” It’s like, I know you can’t afford a lawyer. What are you talking about? A lot of times it is just that kind of puffing up of their chest. Did she quit? Or did you fire her? Was that the one you fired?

Gentry: Yeah, my husband fired her. I’m very respectful. I expect respect in return. I gave her a pay advance. I’m very kind to people. Probably shouldn’t have given a pay advance so early, but I was in a bind, like I said. I’m always caught off guard when someone is attacking what feels like me. I know it’s the business and I have to separate myself, but it felt like an attack on me, and I felt like I was doing the best I could to be a great boss. So it was just a lot on me.

Separating Business from Personal

Stephanie: It is, and I can understand that separation – it’s like, well, my business is me. That has more to do with the type of person that she is, because she doesn’t know you. And I will say that some of the worst things that have been said about me have been from the people that I’ve helped more than anyone. I’ve given and given, and there’s this book I remember that calls them energy vampires, where they just suck the life out of you.

I’ve had multiple instances of those types of people in my business where it’s just like, you’re just a black hole – I couldn’t give you my house, and you still think I’m a bad person. Keep in mind that it’s definitely not you.

Taking from what you learned – no pay advances, we don’t do them at all. If I’m giving you money, this is a gift, because they start thinking, well, they got one. So it’s a bad precedent, even with a big heart. My managers have had to stop me from giving pay advances, like “Stephanie do not do this, this is against policy.” I’ve wanted to break that rule, and I’m so glad that I didn’t, because it would have just started this snowball effect. So you have two good ones that are working out now, right?

Gentry: Yes, they’re awesome. Even the last one was an amazing cleaner. I never want to slander anybody. She’s an amazing cleaner. I think she should own her own company. Some people just don’t need to work for other people. Some people need their own company.

Yes, I have two amazing cleaners, and what’s been my main struggle is separating my social work, therapist brain, from cleaning, because cleaning is a more cutthroat type of industry. It’s very business-first, less feelings involved, and that’s just not what I come from. But yes, I have two amazing employees.

Maintaining Your Values In Business

Stephanie: I would say, why my long-term staff have such love and adoration for me is that I’ve absolutely thrown out the window any rules about keeping it all business. I think it’s just having those strong boundaries of what makes you a beautiful, special person is that you care deeply about people and you want to help them, but figuring out explicitly what that line is.

You have all this background that makes you very unique and that will make you a great leader, but only if you have those strong boundaries in place. So don’t feel like you need to be this cold person. Don’t let it make you this cynical person, because people will screw you over. That’s about them, not you. Stay strong in your identity of who you are – you’re a kind person, you’re a person that helps people – and learn every time you get burned, but don’t shut off from that goodness in you.

Things that have happened to me could make me very cynical, but that’s what people do sometimes, and then you move on and start over. But it’s hard not to get very demoralized when it keeps happening over and over, because there’s a lot of people who are going to screw you over. That’s where having the policies in place and protecting yourself will be important.

Training and Business Vision

Stephanie: So what did training look like? I’m curious. They’re great cleaners, it sounds like, so what has that process looked like so far?

Gentry: Training is actually something that we’re working on developing, because I’m not a professional cleaner. I know about cleaning because of proximity to real estate, but I’m not a professional cleaner. I’ve also been a part of checking out the different Airbnbs that my family owns, just to make sure that they’re up to code and standard. But I’m still not a professional cleaner.

The way that I’ve been hiring is I try to hire people with prior experience, because those are my first employees, and then I wanted to build from there. So after I see them clean, telling them what they miss, telling them what they’re doing well, improving, and then establishing some sort of standard so that they could be the main OGs of the company eventually and hopefully, and then they can train everyone who comes after them.

Stephanie: I like that thought process, because for a lot of people who have kind of “made it,” they had a diamond early on. I’ve had a couple of my managers who are my longest employees, and they just – I didn’t really have to train them. I mean, that little bit of correcting, but then they became the trainers, because I hate training. I loathe training even though I enjoy teaching. I don’t enjoy teaching something that I find very second nature, even though I was never a professional cleaner, but I just knew what clean was and what it was not.

It’s frustrating if I have to keep repeating myself, and that is not a good trainer. So I love to hear that. Hopefully one of these ladies will be that for you.

So it sounds like a lot of things are going right, and you have a very good vision for what you want. How would you describe your vision of not only the type of work that you’re doing, but long term, what do you want your business to be?

Long-Term Business Goals

Gentry: The full name is 2.0 Residential and Commercial Cleaning Enterprise. The reason why we put enterprise at the end is because we do want it to be a bigger conglomerate. So our vision is just being in the commercial space, in the residential space.

I want to partner with big businesses, maybe even medical here in Austin. Like Austin Regional Clinic, I’d love a contract with these bigger clinics, maybe even hospitals who need contractors. That’s where I’m looking, because that’s where I feel the most money is, and also long-standing relationships can be.

I’ve also been learning the value of residential, because whenever these contracts drop, what I’ve been hearing a lot of professionals say is residential is what can keep you steady. It’s kind of hard to do both. My husband and I have been trying to do both and figure out our footing in both areas. Right now, we’re focusing on residential, because I think maybe commercial will come, hopefully, after they see the reviews that we’re building up on Google.

Stephanie: So basically, focus on residential now, because from a bandwidth perspective, being that there’s a lot of commercial in the evenings, and if you were to get a big job early on, it can be very overwhelming. So really building that strong core and foundation on residential moves so well for commercial.

You made such a good point that most of our commercial, if we’re not doing that kind of outreach drop-offs, like cold calling, cold emailing, all the rest of our commercial either came from word of mouth via our residential clients. They own businesses, right? They’re the people who can afford to hire us.

That is such low-hanging fruit for getting your foot in the door, especially for smaller commercial spaces, like a little shop, or a professional who has an office that you could do, or they sell insurance, and they have a small office. Those are the perfect places to get your foot in the door for commercial that’s not this big, giant medical facility or something, which, frankly, you’re probably not going to get until you have some experience with commercial.

So it sounds like you guys are definitely on the right path. Is your husband still working full-time?

Gentry: Yes, he’s still working full-time. He’s working right now.

Marketing and Client Acquisition

Stephanie: As for residential, how are you getting that now? It’s word of mouth, meaning they’re talking to each other, they’re sharing in Facebook groups. What other avenues, or is that the main avenue right now?

Gentry: That’s the main avenue. I made a Thumbtack account, but I haven’t purchased any leads from there, because it’s $45 a lead, or $30 a lead. It just seemed expensive to me at this time, because I’m already paying for insurance. I’m paying for a lot of platforms. I try to keep the softwares to a minimum, but I need some like ZenMaid, I need Gusto.

Better Marketing Approaches

Stephanie: I would never personally use a Thumbtack or an Angie’s List or anything like that, because what happens is somebody posts for a job, they’re looking for a cleaner, and then they have 7,000 people jump on them. It’s very overwhelming and they’re going to go for the lowest price, because there is no way for their brains to differentiate who’s who, what’s what, who’s actually better.

By the time you get to them, you have to be really quick, and you can’t wine and dine them like you want to, as if they were coming to Google or something like that. I think your money would be much better spent getting Google Local Service Ads certified. So LSA, which is basically, if you Google, you’ll see at the top of the search results companies that say “Google guaranteed,” and that means they’ve gone through the LSA process. You do pay for that when they call, but I think the bang for your buck is much stronger.

The other way, I am such a fan of free cleanings. I think that should be your marketing budget, because you can utilize those in a lot of ways:

1. To get your people hours
2. To get your cleaning systems and processes refined
3. Figure out your production rates, so you can figure out your pricing

Then say, “Hey, I will give you this free cleaning in exchange if you are comfortable with leaving a review.” I would utilize that 100% to get your reviews up.

But where you need to focus, considering it’s going to take you a long time to get your reviews up to compete with companies in Austin that have been around for years, you could stand out with video testimonials. That should be your number one priority – getting video reviews from happy clients and putting those at the top of your website, uploading them to your Google My Business, and you can boost those on Facebook if you want to pay for Facebook ads.

Those will give you a leg up on a lot of the competition and make you stand out, because nobody wants to do it. Everybody listening is like, “Oh, I don’t want to ask for a video review.” Well, that’s why you should, because nobody else is doing it. Do you have any big fans right now? I know you’ve only been open for a couple months, but do you have anybody who really likes you?

Building Reviews and Testimonials

Gentry: Yes, I do have some people that really like us. We have eight reviews. Honestly, we really just started hitting the ground running a couple weeks ago, where we’ve actually been doing more cleanings. So we have eight reviews that span over the last one or two weeks that are people who are our fans and have been saying how great of a job we do.

Stephanie: So you’re going to want to hit them up for video testimonials. And I know you’re thinking, nobody’s going to say yes, but they totally will. You’d be surprised by how many. And if they say no, it’s okay because not everybody wants to. Don’t take it personally.

Always explain what you’re going to ask them so that they’re prepared. I just say, “Hey, whenever it’s convenient to you, I can come over to your house or show up at your work, whatever makes sense. I’m going to ask you these three things: What’s your name and how did you hear about 2.0 Cleaning Services? How long have you been using us? And why would you recommend other homeowners?” You ask them those three or four questions, and just let them talk. You get it on your cell phone. This is literally zero editing. We don’t edit these at all.

Then what you will need to do is put that on your Google My Business, but you’re also going to want to start a YouTube channel for your business. That’s not to get subscribers or put any effort into a YouTube channel – YouTube is owned by Google, so Google likes to put YouTube results in search results.

So if people search “Austin cleaning services near me,” or “Austin house cleaning services,” and your YouTube video has that in the title, all of a sudden it’s going to pop up in the search results. Now you have video reviews appearing, and that’s a good way from a search engine perspective to actually start showing up organically. You don’t have to pay for it, and they convince people more than anything else will.

And then on Facebook, if you do want to pay for advertising, those are the ones that actually going to work. You’re going to target very specific audiences – women in the age group that you’re trying to hit in certain neighborhoods.

I think having a no-brainer offer is something that everybody should consider. And what that phrase means is it would be silly to not take this offer. You’ll often see “Get your first lawn cleaning or lawn mowing for $1” or “Get your first carpet cleaning for 50 bucks.” I do not recommend that for a first-time cleaning, because we all know how labor intensive that is, and you’re going to get people who just come for one-offs.

Serene Clean’s is “Book your first cleaning, get your second 50% off.” You can totally use that, because you’re trying to get people in the habit of having a house cleaner. If you were to do that, then put that in your Facebook ad, put that all over and really promote that. Now you’ve got an offer that’s enticing, so put it right at the top of your website.

Because while your website looks beautiful, I think it doesn’t really make me want to take action with anything. We are trying to get them to fill out that booking form. This is also why I don’t put prices on websites, because we don’t want people to be startled away by a high price before we’ve had that opportunity to really sell them. Do you have prices on your website?

Gentry: I don’t have prices. I just have how much add-ons cost on my website, but not actual prices.

Stephanie: That’s totally fine. People get that sticker shock, and you haven’t gotten their email yet, you haven’t gotten their phone to actually interact with them. So we want to get their contact information before we start throwing out the prices.

Gentry: I have a question about the 50% off. Because of you, I’ve tried the “buy the first clean and get the second one 50% off.” I recently changed it to 25% because I don’t have that much money right now. But what I’m experiencing is a lot of people will buy the first cleaning and then they’ll want the second one 50% off, but like two or three months later, which is another deep cleaning. Is there a time limit on that? Is it like within a month?

Stephanie: We enforce that they only get the discount if the second cleaning is within a month. As long as it’s our fault, meaning we don’t have availability to get them in within a month because we’re really booked, we will still honor that. If it’s a little over, like six weeks, but it’s our fault we don’t have the availability, that’s not going to be your problem.

So be very firm, and we put that in little asterisks, or we’ll put that on the first initial email of “Hey, as a thank you for having us, this is what you get as long as it’s performed within one month of the first.” It doesn’t have to be this secret thing, but that will save you, because people will try to game the system. Great question.

Gentry: That makes sense. I’ve also recently had a really crazy experience where I didn’t ask for before pictures, didn’t do a walk-through. We get to a home and it’s filthy – it should have been a $400 or $500 job, maybe more, and I only charged $200. Things like that have been happening to me, which may just be growing pains.

Pricing Strategies and Calculations

Stephanie: Absolutely. How are you charging right now? Is it flat rate, hourly?

Gentry: Right now, I’m doing flat rate, but I’m trying to do a hybrid model where I still calculate hourly on the back end. So I’ll do flat rate, and then I’ll double check that it should at least be $55 an hour, just to make sure it kind of evens out. But I don’t know my production rate very well. So I may say something takes four hours, but because they have a dog, it actually took six, and that’s where I’m messing up.

Stephanie: What you just described – you are flat rate. You are just double checking your numbers. Hybrid model typically is going to be where you charge hourly for a first time, and then switch to flat rate for maintenance, which could be a good option for you while you’re learning, especially because first times are challenging.

I think that’s one of the biggest problems we all face in the beginning – we drastically underestimate how long first times are going to take, and also what the typical house is going to be like.

Improving Your Pricing Process

A solution that could help is on your booking form, you could have them rate their home on a scale of one to ten. One is “you could eat off the floor,” ten is the exact opposite of that, however you want to phrase it to not offend people. And if they were to rate their home a five or above, you could then add $200 to the price, or something along those lines.

Take a look at what was it about that first time clean – was it pets? Was it number of children? What were the things that maybe we could have asked about upfront that would have indicated what you were walking into?

We don’t do in-person walkthroughs. What we do is say in our estimate email: “This estimate is based off of homes the size of yours in the typical state of a first-time clean. If there is any additional build up, this may add time and cost, and we will communicate that with you.”

So our cleaners, when they get there, if they’re like, “Whoa, Nelly, it’s way worse,” you have that moment to say, “Hey, we are going to have to increase the budget or you’re going to need to remove some rooms to maintain that same price.” Depending on how far off you are, most likely you’re probably just going to have to increase your first-time rates. Whatever number you’re using to calculate is probably too fast.

Let’s walk through this. Let’s give you an example. Say I have a 2,000 square foot house. What questions are you going to ask me, and how? What is your formula for figuring this out?

Gentry: I would ask how many square feet – you told me 2,000. I would ask the floor type. If it’s carpet, I would calculate more in my head. Then I would ask, is this before I made the mistake the other day, or is it now that I learned?

Stephanie: What is version two of pricing? And you’ll get to version seven eventually.

Gentry: My version two, now that I learned, I would ask if you have any pets and what breed it is. I would want to know the last time your home was cleaned professionally. I would want to do the scale, which I have on my website, but I don’t ask that on the phone, and not a lot of people go to my website, so I would ask that verbally on the phone – the scale of how dirty. And I would ask how many bedrooms and bathrooms, if it’s a two-story home. I think that’s it.

Stephanie: When you say flooring type, you said if carpet, you add more.

Gentry: If it’s an all-carpet two-story house, it costs more.

Stephanie: The reason I’m asking is, hard floors you have to vacuum and mop – where carpet you only have to vacuum, so there’s only one pass versus two. Do you find carpet is taking you longer?

Gentry: I find carpet is taking longer because I don’t have any backpack vacuums or anything that helps speed it up.

Stephanie: We don’t use backpack vacuums either, we never have.

Gentry: They sweep hardwood, they don’t vacuum it. And I just figured carpet, maybe there’s stains on it, maybe there’s gunk, it just seems strenuous. And then you’re going upstairs with carpet – I just thought it would take longer.

Real-World Pricing Examples

Stephanie: From there, how are you figuring out that price?

Gentry: Right now, I would just get my calculator. I would do 2,000 times 0.15, which is 300. And then I would think about how long do I think a 2,000 square foot home would take? I would say five hours for a first-time clean.

Stephanie: With one cleaner? So five man-hours?

Gentry: Yes, I would think it would take five hours total for a first-time clean. So I would do five times 55 and that equals 275, so that was close to my original 300 and I would probably quote you somewhere near 275 to 300.

Stephanie: So the 0.15, what was that? What was that from?

Gentry: How many cents per square foot I tried to charge for a deep clean. I’ve been looking at possibly 0.20, but I think that scares people away. So 0.15 is what I was quoting previously.

Stephanie: Have you done any cleanings of that size of home? And how long has that actually taken you, for a first time?

Gentry: We’ve done a lot more condos. What seems to be our market right now is bachelors and bachelorettes that live in high rises downtown, that aren’t ever home and want their home clean. So those are one bedroom, one baths, and I’ve had one that took six hours, which I didn’t know if that was normal or not.

As far as a home, my first home was the one that I made a mistake on, and I quoted $200 and it had cat litter, cat earring trash on the floor. I think it had maggots in the corner.

Understanding True Production Rates

Stephanie: I’m going to go through some numbers. Saying a 2,000 square foot home would take five man-hours for a first time would bring you to 400 square feet per man-hour for an initial clean. I think that is way too fast.

What tasks you are doing heavily dictates these things, because my first-time clean may be different than yours, but for Serene Clean and the checklist that we follow, our first-time production rate is about 150 square feet per man-hour. So for that same house, we would estimate that it would take us 13 to 15 man-hours for a first time.

The price that we would give them is 13 by 55 would be $715, 15 times 55 would be $825. So the estimate would be between $715 and $825. And they will take it, and they will say yes, and that’s in rural Wisconsin.

I think you are drastically under on your estimates. The more first-times you do, the more you’ll see this – people’s houses are way dirtier than we think. What you think is probably an extreme dirty – that’s the norm, unless they’ve had a recent house cleaner, and even then, sometimes they’re still bad.

So I think you’re going to need to start running these numbers and seeing how fast did we actually clean it, and what did we make? This is where you just start adjusting. Was five enough? Was six enough? Was seven enough? Was eight enough?

As I just said, we would triple the price that you gave them and the time it would take. I would have two cleaners there for darn near a whole day to get that house done. So a one bedroom, one bath for us, we would probably be there for six to eight man-hours, again, depending on dirtiness.

Gentry: So man-hours is the cost of everybody who’s working there, like their hours combined, right?

Stephanie: Labor hours is another way people call it. The reason you’ll hear me use this phrase so much is because it can get confusing otherwise. If I say this clean will be four hours, well, with how many cleaners? That’s why we say man-hours.

Say you have two cleaners on it, that’s still the same number of labor hours. If you always run teams, I still would just do it by labor hours. Otherwise, you’re going to confuse yourself, possibly confuse your cleaners.

For us, we put notes “this cleaning is approved for up to 15 man-hours.” Our cleaners know they are not allowed to go over that. What happens if they don’t get it done? You need to have your cleaners do that initial walk-through. Once they start getting used to what is normal, what is not, at that time when they first walk through, they can say, “No way, this is dirtier than a typical first time.”

What we do is we have our cleaners start in the kitchen, and then the bathrooms, the hardest rooms, and then they do a pause and say, is there enough time left over? Because for us, we wouldn’t even get to the kitchen and bathrooms in a home like that in five hours, because there’s probably three bathrooms. Most full baths take an hour the first time. A kitchen? I’ve seen kitchens take three to four hours, depending on how dirty they are. On move-outs even worse, because you have to do the interiors of everything.

That’s when they take that time and check in and reach out and say, “Hey, not enough time. We need more.” So I would say start implementing that now. You’re going to lose money on some of these jobs as you’re learning. But this is when you start learning if you’re pricing enough.

Of course, your question is going to be, “Nobody’s going to take that price. How could I possibly get that?” And that’s where the branding and marketing comes in. That’s where having a beautiful checklist that you send and attach, and if somebody comes back and says, “Heck no, that’s too high,” our rebuttal is, “Well, what is your budget?” And then we work within their budget.

What I mean by that is we make a limited hour agreement, or for you, it would be a limited room agreement. We will clean for this amount or do only these rooms, and they can kind of à la carte together the rooms. We wouldn’t remove tasks because we don’t do that, but we could remove rooms to fit their budget, and often many of our clients are in limited hour agreements as recurring clients. We go for three hours every time, and we just work off their priority list. They leave us a list every time and say, work on these rooms this time. So that could be a good way to get some clients.

Managing Client Expectations About Pricing

Gentry: I just had a question. This last client where I made this mistake, I went in person, I saw how it was, and I pulled her to the side, and I said, “Hey, we charge by the hour, $50 an hour. That’s what it was. $200 around this is not going to be a four-hour job based on what I’m seeing.” So then she says, “Well, I didn’t see anything about hours in your policies,” which is true. And so I’m wondering, what do I share with the client? If I go the hourly rate, because I think that makes the most sense as they are basically paying for my labor, do I tell them I’m charging you $55 per person on this job?

Stephanie: The reason you are always getting the short end is because you’re not pricing enough yet as flat rate. Flat rate works if you know how to price. You don’t know how to price yet. Your pricing is too low, so I would suggest doing hourly now, at least for first times, so that you don’t lose money.

The client does not care if they’re being charged flat rate. It’s irrelevant to them what your numbers are, because for them, the price is the price. You told me $200 to get this job done. So that’s on you if you lose money – they don’t care.

I would not share all the details. One thing you could do is say, “This is $250 and it is guaranteed for up to six man-hours of work. Anything over that will be charged at this hourly rate.” That is one method.

The language we use for charging hourly is, “We will not go over this amount. This is what we estimate to get the job done. But if, for some reason, we believe that we’re going to need more time, that will be communicated before we ever get near that time limit.” That’s why we have the cleaners check in there.

Gentry: And I had her complain too, “Well, you said hourly, and it’s already been an hour and they’re still in the bathroom.” The bathroom had a ton of build up – it had hair build up, stuff on the floor, trash. So it did take an hour for her in the bathroom. That wasn’t her fault, in my mind. So what do we do about that when they’re clock watching and complaining about the speed of the cleaners?

Stephanie: This is something where you’re the professional. You can’t be like, “Well, then you go clean it in an hour.” That’s what we want to say, but we can’t.

This is where explaining from the get-go: initial cleans take significantly longer than maintenance cleans, even if we’re completing the same tasks. Cleaning a toilet for the first time that’s never been cleaned in six months takes much longer.

You could even say in your guidelines or your initial estimate, “In general, first-time cleans of bathrooms take upwards of an hour, and masters, I’ve seen take an hour and a half, because they’ve got a full tub, giant walk-in shower.”

Clock watchers are not your ideal client, for sure. If they’ve never had a professional cleaner or a good one, then they’ll be like, “Why is it taking so long?” This is where on the front end, you can beat this by explaining, “We’re incredibly detailed, which means that it is going to take longer, but you will definitely appreciate that level of detail.”

So this is where getting that social proof, but even leaning into that further – they’re super detailed, that’s what we’re going for.

Gentry: I think I can definitely do that. We use your 130-point checklist. I saw it on ZenMaid, and that’s what I use. Maybe I just need to figure out a way to make the checklist pretty on a piece of paper on Canva, because Canva is not working for me as far as checklists with the little formatting. I would love to email that to people, and I think that would help me as well, because right now I just took a screenshot of the ZenMaid.

Commercial Cleaning and Strategic Growth

Stephanie: I’ll send you our pretty one by email, because it’s exactly what you’re using in ZenMaid. It’s just pretty for marketing. When you attach that to the estimate or the bid, all of a sudden it clicks in their minds.

We’re not like most businesses where they say, “We dust all the surfaces, we do all the floors” and they just give an overarching short list. Until you see that over and over in every single room, it just doesn’t click for them. Spell it out exactly what is going to happen.

That also allows for no scope creep, meaning if they all of a sudden are asking you to do things that aren’t established, or put that pressure on your cleaners, that gives your cleaners something to point to and say, “Nope, this is the work that we do.”

Clock watchers are never fun and they never last as clients.

Gentry: We did such amazing work. I mean, it was night and day, how it looked when we left. And it felt very thankless.

I had another question about apartments. I’ve been going to apartments, and a lot of my door-to-door is with apartments. What I’ve been noticing is apartments sometimes don’t have the budget – they have this huge scope of work, or a huge apartment building with so many square feet.

I did three-hour walk-throughs, which I’m learning not to do, because I would spend three to four hours walking through an entire apartment, measuring the floor extensively, and then tripling it. And then they’d be like, “Oh, we only want to pay like $150 to clean.”

I guess I’m not understanding how to price apartments. In Austin, what I have noticed is there is a very big industry for lowballing. I’ve had people come back and say, “I need you to clean this for $84” because they have a lot of individuals who will clean it for $80 and then don’t do good work. So I’m wondering, how do you price for apartments? Do you do it by the floor, gradually over time?

Pricing and Approaching Commercial Spaces

Stephanie: Just to specify, when you say apartment buildings, are you talking about the turnover cleans of the spaces or the common areas of the complexes?

Gentry: The common areas. So what I’ve been getting is interest in common areas, leasing office, hallways and elevators.

Stephanie: We actually have quite a few of these. Don’t waste your time measuring anything – nobody measures for commercial, it’s a waste of time and it annoys people. Honestly, eyeballing is the way in commercial.

If they have this budget in mind, rein them in. We’re really high quality, so either you need to remove some of these things, or we will give them several options in the bid. Here is what you guys are telling us you want, and this is the price. This is your budget, and what we can do for that budget, and maybe a middle option as well.

That kind of gives them the illusion of choice. When they see it spelled out with multiple options, it can make it glaringly obvious that their number is too low for what they are looking for.

When it comes to actually pricing it, we’ll count how many long hallways, how many stairways, how many elevators. We have this walk-through packet that we’re filling in – how many spaces of each and what they want done in each space. As we’re doing the walk-through, we’re just doing rough estimates of how long we think each space is going to take based on the tasks they want.

There is a lot of guesstimating, but you get better at it over time. Once you do get one contract, you can time yourself and say, “This always takes me, on average, 10 minutes when they’re this size.”

If they’re coming back and saying, “The budget is $150” and you think, “No way,” you can suggest multiple options, or you just don’t take them – that’s not an ideal client. We don’t do dentist offices; we’ve tried over and over again and it’s been a complete failure because they’re cheap. Same with daycares – they don’t have the money, yet it is so much work. They’re super picky, and it’s just really hard to please them.

Keep trying and keep giving them your price, or what you could do is say, “I would do a deep clean of your administrative space for free, to show you what real cleaning is like, and then I can give you my bid” and see if they would take that.

A lot of it is education in the sales process. I think one of our biggest challenges is we just give a price, but we don’t sell. Are you selling? Are you wooing? Are you wining and dining them? Are you romancing them into the sale? What does your bid look like? Does it sell for you?

I’ll send you our one-sheet too – our snazzy little sales sheet. So you’ll be able to see what that looks like, and you’ll be able to edit that in Canva.

If you ever do have a commercial space and you’re like, “I don’t know how to bid this,” send me the details, and I’ll help you walk through it.

The biggest thing also is doing a video walk-through when you’re doing these walkthroughs. Our final step is we’re going to take an actual video going over all of the spaces. This is good for your cleaners, if you do get the bid, so that they can see the layout. Where does garbage go? This is where you park. This is where you enter. This is where all the supplies are. But then for you to bid, because sometimes that walk-through is so nerve-wracking and you blank and don’t remember anything that happens. So having an actual video will help jog your memory as well.

Finding Your Ideal Commercial Clients

Apartment complexes might just not be your ideal buyer for commercial. If you’re finding they’re cheap, stop going after them. Start with easier places – professional service buildings, manufacturing facilities, trucking terminals, and local government buildings, city halls, libraries. Those are our good commercial accounts.

We have apartment complexes, they certainly don’t make up a big portion for us. And the people I talk to in big cities, those apartments are cheap, they have a very limited budget, and they’re not afraid to cut if they want to get somebody cheaper. So it just might not be your people to go after.

Gentry: I think I need to figure out who my ideal client is, who would be a good fit for me right now, as we’re growing, because I do want some commercial but on a scale that we can manage, but also profit from.

Stephanie: From my own experience over time of having so much commercial, looking at our active commercial accounts – the majority from a numbers perspective are professional services, but in a wide variety. So I think broadening your terms of what is a professional service, this is going to be a lot of blue-collar offices. It could be HVAC or insulation or lawn care, places that do blue-collar work, they have office and administrative buildings that need to be serviced.

Of course, lawyers, insurance people, accountants offices, we have several of those – any type of random service.

Our biggest account is a government contract. Those are much harder to get, so I wouldn’t consider that your ideal in the beginning, but go look and find the industrial parks in Austin. There’s a ton of money in there – industrial, dirty jobs, where guys are welding, there is money. So go walk in there, take them donuts, say hello, introduce yourself, ask how they’re doing their cleaning. There’s so much money in manufacturing facilities.

We’re so blind to it – there’s businesses literally on every single street, and we just don’t even see it.

Gentry: Do you charge the same amount for commercial as far as man-hour cost?

Stephanie: We try to aim for around $50 per man-hour for commercial. So a little bit cheaper, but some of them we make much more, because that’s all flat rate, of course. When we’re doing our audits, we have some commercial that we’re making upwards of $60-65. It just depends how fast we can speed through and what their daily needs are.

We’re just trying to push and get the price as high as we can, and still think what they are going to take. Honestly, that has a lot to do with how many people are bidding it, if we have that information.

Overall, at this point, we’re shooting for $55 per man-hour, but if it comes in a little under, we’re totally fine with it. Anything that we’re making less than like $45, that means they need a price increase.

We just did that on a dance studio that we had serviced for over a year. We did that audit, and we’re consistently taking way longer because I did that walk-through. I’m the one who bid it, and I drastically under-bid, because dance studios are horrific. There’s walls of mirrors, and there’s all these studios that have to be cleaned. It’s a beautiful facility.

So we did the audit just last month, and we gave them the price increase, and they dropped us. But that’s good, because we weren’t making the money we needed to make.

Keep in mind that even if that top revenue number is good, that means nothing if the numbers don’t make sense when you do the math. Don’t be dazzled by a high price – does it actually make sense? That’s all that matters.

Commercial pricing is tough, but you start to get the hang of it. It doesn’t mean you won’t make mistakes and need to do a correction. I’d rather lose an account that I’m not making money at than keep it just to keep it.

Using Free Cleanings and Community Marketing

Gentry: I’m excited about this free cleaning idea, not only for residential, but maybe for a leasing office, or there’s this plastic surgery Botox place that I’ve had my eye on, so I can offer them a free clean.

Stephanie: Again, like timing it – okay, can you do a bathroom? How long did that take you? And then you’re starting to compile your data to accurately go off of it.

That’s actually one of our big projects that we’re tackling in Serene Clean this year – we are going to be doing very nitty gritty account audits of our current commercial and timing in each space.

I’m hoping that by the end of 2025, I will be able to tell you exactly how long the typical lobby of this size takes, or exactly how long bathrooms with this number of stalls and urinals take, because I have all of the data just sitting there.

We’re going to have our quality controller Hannah go along with the cleaner with a stopwatch and note how long it takes. So it’s a lot of work, but I think it’s going to help us accurately price going forward in the future, to prevent these boo-boos that I’m describing.

If you do get a commercial space, start figuring out those numbers while you’re small, because then as you grow, it’ll make it a lot easier for you. You can do that too with the bathroom – does it take you guys, on average, an hour for a first-time clean in a bathroom? Then, what do all rooms take?

That’s where free cleanings can be really useful, because you can take that time and do those audits without the pressure of the clock as much because the client isn’t paying.

Gentry: I love that idea. I’m going to work on that literally today. I’m excited about that.

I haven’t seen a lot of cleaning companies doing tabling events, so I’m gonna do an event in April, and hopefully use the free cleaning idea that I’ve heard you say before, and do a raffle.

Community Marketing and Giving Back

Stephanie: People just flock to our tables because we have a free cleaning giveaway that they enter. They start talking. Have a ton of your checklists printed out so you can hand those out and use them as a marketing tool, the one-sheets as well.

Your whole giving initiatives – anything you can do to make that pretty and marketable. If you could have a sheet talking about what you do in the community, right now, you could start a cleaning nomination program. Doesn’t mean you have to clean everybody who’s nominated, but it’s there. So that when you do have the ability, or maybe somebody canceled, and you want to make sure your cleaner has hours, consider that free marketing as well.

Those people are likely to give you reviews, and you can really limit it, like “we’re coming for three hours.” Joining Cleaning for a Reason, if you haven’t already, is very useful from a marketing perspective.

Having employee-chosen local donations – every month you’re donating to a charity locally, and highlighting that on your social media, highlighting on your website. Just kind of systematizing generosity, and it doesn’t have to be a lot of money, because you don’t have a lot of money. So $25 a month, that’s how much I gave in the beginning until I could up that as we grew.

But the system was there – the desire to help was there. How could you put that into a pretty snazzy little “this is all the things that we do”? People are a lot more likely to share companies that have these social responsibility structures in place.

Website and Digital Improvements

Gentry: I love that. I need to figure out how to edit my website myself. I don’t know how to upload these videos. I’ll figure that out.

Stephanie: It looks like a WordPress website, and that’s very easy to log in and use their little builders. If you can manage your own website updates, like especially simple things like uploading videos or photos, that’ll save you a lot of money. Or just pay somebody else on Fiverr if you have enough changes.

Gentry: My designer does it for free, but he takes forever, and that’s why it’s free.

Stephanie: You could even pay somebody to teach you how, like, “Hey, how do I do all of this?” And then you don’t need to get them to help you every time.

Gentry: You said my website was good. I know you mentioned SEO.

Website Improvement Suggestions

Stephanie: I think it’s pretty. Let me look and see if there’s anything else. From the homepage, when I first load the page, it says “Revolutionizing cleaning, 2.0 residential and commercial cleaning enterprise.” That is where I would put your no-brainer offer, which is going to be the call to action. Because right now that doesn’t make me feel like, why do I care about that? It’s just your business name.

Scrolling down, you need pictures of you on this homepage, because these photos could be anybody. They could be any company anywhere. All of the photos are totally generic, stock images. Get some photos of you, of your family, sell who you are and your story – it’s unique to you.

Your “About Company” section on this homepage could be anybody’s. So how can you make it that only the story could be yours? That’s what your website needs to have – this unique perspective. And then how are you going to solve their pain? Why are you different?

So really focusing on what is the pain that your clients are feeling, and how are you going to solve it comparatively to everybody else? Because right now it’s pretty but it could be anybody’s website. So how do you make it Gentry’s?

Those are the big things. If you made those changes, you’d see a big improvement already, I think, from your bookings.

Let me look at your booking form here, if there’s any other questions I would ask. Oh, you spelled “gauge” wrong on your booking form, so correct that.

What you could do is make a booking form for both residential and commercial. So if they’re commercial, they can go to that so that we can tailor the questions for commercial only, and then your booking form isn’t trying to do both.

I would ask about pets and kids, because that drastically dictates time. Then I would ask something to allow you to sell better. A question we have is, “What spaces in your home are stressing you out the most?” or “What is so stressful about maintaining your home currently?” Whatever they put there, that is how you sell to them, because when you call or email, you can empathize: “I totally get it. It is so hard to keep up with the kitchen when you’re so busy.”

All of a sudden they feel heard, they like you more. And also that means for your cleaners, we’ll say, “Nail that kitchen, because obviously that’s their biggest stress point.” So it helps you dictate to your cleaners what they need to focus on.

Otherwise, the booking form is beautiful.

Gentry: That makes sense. I will definitely fix that. And the “gauge.”

Reflecting on Business Perception and Growth

Stephanie: I feel like you got a lot to work off of. How are you feeling? Do you feel excited?

Gentry: I feel excited. I feel related to because that’s something I’ve been struggling with – when I say I own a cleaning business, a lot of people, it’s not this glamorous job, and a lot of people don’t understand that there’s money in it. So I feel like I get even some derogatory comments.

Stephanie: I know for myself, I have this chip on my shoulder that if I say I own a cleaning company, I feel that I have to quantify “I’m not cleaning anymore,” and it’s because I know that people are judging it. That’s still something I struggle with to this day. I want people to respect this, because I know the work and that it is respectable, but the nice thing at the end of the day is, you’re gonna make more money than them.

Gentry: I have to say I’ve been asked, “Well, are you the maid?” Not that there’s anything wrong with being a maid, but I own the business. I’m a businesswoman.

Stephanie: It’s like our employees versus us – we’re not better than them 100%, it’s different. Owning a business is one of the most challenging things that anybody will ever do. You feel the effort that goes into it, but at the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter what they think.

Unless they’re paying your bills – maybe if they’re a client, you don’t need to tell them. You can show them. My clients know that Serene Clean is special and different because they experience it. I don’t have to say anything. My work speaks for itself, and so that should be the goal for you.

Gentry: I have to remind myself, it’s been three months or four months.

Stephanie: Let that guide your actions. What will it take so that you don’t have to say anything – it speaks for itself, so that nobody ever deigns to ask you that again? Nobody asks me that anymore, because all the proof is there.

Managing Employee Perceptions

Gentry: My last question, because I actually really want to tell you this because you’re a cleaning boss. I recently had an employee tell me when she got mad, “You just come and go as you please.” How do you explain to employees your role or why you’re not there cleaning with them?

It’s the same way if a man was your boss. A lot of men don’t get down and clean with you. They come, they supervise, they leave, they come back. So how do you break that down? Or do you just let them go when you see that resentment building of you coming and going?

Stephanie: I started as a cleaner, and this was actually an adjustment period for some of my longest cleaners. I was cleaning beside them, and then I wasn’t, and then I moved to Georgia from Wisconsin, so they do not see me working at all now.

First, give them the benefit of the doubt, because I get it. We’ve all been in roles where we’re like, “The boss just makes money off of us,” having no inkling of what they do.

We have team meetings every week, and I share little parts of my day, things I’m working on. I will also give kudos to my management team, because they are doing most of the day-to-day management. I’ll talk about difficult situations that they had to go through, because that’s all behind the curtain the cleaners don’t experience. So the cleaners can understand how freaking hard it is to manage a business.

And then we also talk about nightmares the cleaners have gone through. So there’s just this level of empathy building. If you’re not having team meetings, start that now. Start this culture now – what challenges did you have? Let me share some of the challenges I have had – really give them a peek behind the curtain, because then they can understand or empathize.

I’ve definitely had that comment of “Must be nice” or whatever. And it’s like, “Yeah, you’re right. It is nice. Go try it.” Just watch them try and fail.

I don’t let it bother me too much. I just try to show them with the effort and as the business builds, they know that’s not just happening by itself – there’s a bunch of effort being put into it.

You’re still early on, you’re going to continue to improve the business. So don’t let it get to you. If somebody makes those comments, they most likely are not going to work out.

Do they not know how business works? The boss can’t be doing all of the labor. Who’s going to do all of the management stuff and sell and grow the business? Was that a current cleaner or the cleaner that left?

Gentry: The cleaner that left. I tried not to let things bother me, but that really bothered me, because I have to market. I had to run payroll that day. So I had to leave.

Stephanie: You’ll never get that closure. She’s going to know exactly what you were doing when she tries to do it herself. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about.

People are going to misunderstand you. People are going to think bad things about you. People are not even going to try to understand your backstory or who you are.

That self-righteousness, or wanting to justify ourselves, is something that we all constantly need to work on. I don’t need to justify myself to people when I don’t want to be in their place. Why are you caring so much?

I’m a people pleaser, and I’ve always had this problem of wanting everybody to like me and to feel understood. We all just want to feel understood. So you felt very strongly misunderstood there, and of course, you want to explain yourself, but explaining yourself to her wouldn’t have changed her mind. She already had her mind set, so there’s no point in trying.

Save your energy for the people who actually care to know you and care to understand. Employees don’t always have to understand. They just have to do. And if they have that bad of an attitude, then why would you want them on your team anyway? My best employees don’t question me on what I do.

Gentry: They just know.

Stephanie: They know because I consistently have proven to them by my actions over time. You haven’t had enough time to show them the kind of person you are. Everybody coming in knows there’s years of proof that I do what I say, I make this a better place for them.

You already have this vision, which is amazing, you just need the time to have the proof. I know what you’re going to do, but you don’t have the proof yet.

Final Thoughts and Future Plans

Stephanie: You’re doing amazing. I’m so excited for you, you’re gonna do well, for sure. And five years from now, this will be your podcast.

Gentry: I always said, when I’m big, I want to be like you. I want to be an ambassador or something one day, so we will see. It’s only been a couple months.

Stephanie: Exactly. You’re killing it already. And I’ll definitely share those other resources. Thank you for being so open and willing to have this conversation publicly. These are the types of nitty-gritty, specific questions that give us specific advice, not just motivational talk.

So I’ll let you go onto your Friday, Gentry. This has been amazing. I’m so happy to have met you.

Gentry: Yes, I’m happy to have met you too. Can I tell people where to follow my business? On Instagram, follow us at 2.0_cleaning, so the number 2, spell out the word “point,” the number 0, and then “cleaning.” That’s our Instagram. And then the same thing with Facebook, 2.0 Residential and Commercial Cleaning Enterprise. I would love you to follow me as well, Steph.

Stephanie: We’ll link them in the show notes too, so that everybody can easily follow and just watch your journey, because this is just the beginning.

Gentry: And if you’re ever in Austin, Austin’s a fun place.

Stephanie: I hear the food scene is great. I’m a total foodie, so would love that. That’s why Savannah keeps me chunky and happy.

Gentry: I appreciate you doing this. I was so excited when I was watching your episodes at 1AM and you were like, “Gentry Hunter…” I was like, “Yes!” You were like, “Maybe some people don’t want to do this, but…” and I understand, I was like, “No, I’m going to be on here. I’m going to ask my questions.” So I appreciate it. I appreciate you, and I appreciate the platform. Thank you very much.

Stephanie: Absolutely, maybe again in a few months. As you run into new problems, we could talk again, because seeing you at this level – in six months, you’re gonna have different problems. And tackling those would be really fun to watch you grow.

I will cut it off there. This was awesome. And everybody thank you for watching, hit that like, hit that subscribe. Definitely leave comments down below. Give Gentry some love for being so open and honest and vulnerable to share her journey, and we will all be rooting for her. See you guys in the next episode. Bye-bye.

If you enjoyed this episode of The Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast, please be sure to leave us a five-star review so we can reach more cleaners like you. Until next time, keep your work clean and your business filthy rich.

Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity and readability.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• ZenMaid
• Gusto
• Cleaning for a Reason
• 2.0 Cleaning on Instagram
• 2.0 Residential and Commercial Cleaning Enterprise on Facebook