Rebecca Emberson on Vacation Rentals, Party Houses, & Saying No

Listen on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube

Introduction

Stephanie: Hello everyone, welcome or welcome back to the Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast. I am your host, Stephanie from Serene Clean, live and in person here in my Black River Falls office, and I have a very special guest, a listener, Rebecca Emberson, and she is my cleaning business neighbor. She owns Dells-Maid Cleaning Solutions, and she services right on the side of us. We cross over a little bit. She’s been listening. She reached out, and I was like, “Let’s do an in-person live in Wisconsin.” So, Rebecca, thank you so much for making the drive. I appreciate it.

Rebecca: Yeah, definitely. A little bit foggy this morning.

Stephanie: Yes. Yeah, I know. When I landed, let’s see, a couple days ago, and I walked out, it was so crisp, because it’s still super hot in Georgia. Like, this is the best time to be in Wisconsin. In my opinion, it’s just so beautiful.

Rebecca: And I like the color change. Yeah, I like the weather.

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah, I like it until it gets miserable, and then I’m like, I’m out.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Switching From Housecall Pro to ZenMaid

Stephanie: So, Rebecca, obviously, you heard about me from the podcast, and then you looked it up, and you’re like, oh my gosh, we’re neighbors, right?

Rebecca: Right. And actually, that’s what got me into ZenMaid, is because I found the podcast, and I was listening to that, and I thought, “Man, that sounds really easy.”

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca: I was using Housecall Pro. I was like, “Well, what’s the difference?” And then I just started digging, because I think I probably listened to, like, five episodes a day. I was getting, like, addicted.

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca: And I was like, “Well, wait, this sounds so easy.” So that’s how I got into ZenMaid, and then I realized how deep you were in it. I was like, “Well, this makes perfect sense.”

Stephanie: Yeah. What — I’m curious. What were the differences? I’ve never used any other software, so I’m a bit ignorant on, like, what. What have you noticed about ZenMaid that you like?

Rebecca: Ah, I guess it’s very user friendly. When I used Housecall Pro, I only used the schedule. There were all these different things, and I never used anything, because I didn’t understand. I also had to leave the page open, because I didn’t even know how to navigate back to the page.

Stephanie: Wow, that’s how hard it was.

Rebecca: Yeah. So when I started hearing you talk about how easy ZenMaid was, I dug into it a little bit, asked customer service to explain it to me. Oh, so user friendly.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Rebecca: And then I ended up with Kayla.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh God, sealed the deal.

Rebecca: So easy. Yeah. You have a question? Throw it in there, and then you get your answer back. And I can navigate all through there, on my phone, on a computer, where I couldn’t before. Yeah, I could not.

Stephanie: Now, that’s what I love about it, is that the goal is to make it as user friendly as possible, because even if you are tech savvy, you don’t want to have to deal with the problems. And I see Kayla next week at CleanCon. Shout out, Kayla! You’re amazing. She is just a beam of sunshine and a fellow maid service owner. And that’s what I love about ZenMaid. I’m not trying to just be like, ZenMaid, ZenMaid, but it is made with cleaning business owners on the team.

Rebecca: Well, it was a game changer. Yeah, because before, I was stumbling through things. Now I just put it in there, and I trust it. And it’s just kind of like, yep. And then it happens. The girls see it in there. Things happen. Supplies make it places.

Stephanie: It is. It’s magical.

Rebecca: Yeah, yeah. And just the smoothness of operations.

From Call Center to Vacation Rentals

Stephanie: And how long has your business been open?

Rebecca: 2018.

Stephanie: Okay, I was getting my numbers. Eight years. Okay. What made you start? What did you do before? Tell me about your background.

Rebecca: Well, I worked in a call center for a while. I had an employer — he said, “I’m leaving, and I need to give you some advice before I leave.” And he said, “You’re very good at sales. Someday you’ll figure out a way to sell for yourself. You’re selling for the wrong people.”

Stephanie: Wow!

Rebecca: “They’re making money. You make an hourly wage. So make a shift at some point in your life.” And I’ve reached out to him and said, “Oh my goodness! Thank you so much, because that really made me think.” And now I am, to a certain degree, selling myself, or selling your services. But when you meet with someone and you’re telling them your passion, and why you’re doing what you’re doing, you are selling yourself.

Stephanie: Absolutely.

Rebecca: So it’s worked out good.

Stephanie: Did you ever envision yourself owning a business before that moment?

Rebecca: Not really. I didn’t really realize what selling myself was. Yeah, I really had to dig into that. But I had a contractor friend in 2018. I started with five vacation rentals. So it was really scary. It was, like, a nightmare, honestly. It was scary out the gate. He’s like, “Well, you have all this laundry,” and he said, “They’ll check out on Sunday, and you have till, like, Thursday to get it done.”

Stephanie: Actually, that’s pretty good. Yeah, like, that’s nice. If you know, like, the regularity there, that actually is unusual.

Rebecca: And it was just me. Yeah, I had all these days, and I was like, “I hate cleaning,” because I do hate cleaning. But he said it pays this, and I said, “Well, I really like money.”

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: So now I’m a really good cleaner. Yeah, I was raised a really good cleaner. My mom is very anal.

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: Before you could go out and play with friends on the weekends, she would pull white gloves out. Cotton white gloves. And nobody believes it. Yeah. My mom still has them. So that instilled that attention to detail. I’m a good cleaner by being raised that way. So he reached out, and he said, “I have these five.” I started cleaning those, and neighbors were like, “Are you cleaning in there?” Because they’d see me with the bag of laundry and the vacuum. “Are you cleaning in there? Could you clean for me too?” And it blew up so fast. And I had young daughters then. Now they’re 19 and 22, but back then they were cleaning age.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Rebecca: I was like, “Okay, I need help.” Yeah, I need help. And they were my first helpers. And then I had an ex-husband.

Stephanie: They’re the worst, aren’t they?

Rebuilding After Divorce

Rebecca: His job wasn’t going well. He joined. Okay, well, let’s go clean. Yeah. And he kind of almost took over. It was weird. A lot of things became out of my control as we grew. And in 2022, I filed for divorce.

Stephanie: And at that point, he started his own cleaning company to compete with you?

Rebecca: Instantly.

Stephanie: Holy shit! You know, that’s petty-ass bullshit, as one of my former employees would say.

Rebecca: It was crazy. He named his cleaning company to mimic Dells-Maid Cleaning Solutions. He named his Wisconsin Dells Cleaning Solutions.

Stephanie: Oh my!

Rebecca: And then he kept me in the divorce for so long. We had the same last name for over a year, still. So there was so much confusion. People calling — yeah, they think they’re talking to his company. They’re not. They’re talking to me. It was embarrassing.

Stephanie: But, yeah, that sounds like — I mean, to me, that sounds very intentional, to embarrass you.

Rebecca: I think so.

Stephanie: Yeah, that feels horrific. Yeah, I can’t imagine.

Rebecca: But I just felt like I put myself on pause. Yeah, I kept the few clients that stayed with me, and a lot were like, “Hey, we’re going to go with him, and if it doesn’t work out, can we come back?” And I was like, “Well, no, I think that’s just a nope.” We’ve got to be on the same page.

Stephanie: A boundary.

Rebecca: Yep. So I just rebuilt from there. I just felt like I was on pause, but I had what I had. Yeah, and then just grew from there when I could. I fought to keep the company itself, the Facebook page, the name, the branding, the presence online, the taxes for three years. Those things that were important for the business. So then I came out on top with the business itself, and I’ve been able to now grow and make an even better name for myself.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh! Well, I definitely want to dig into this more, because I think, one, people don’t talk about this enough. And that’s why I’ve tried to be fairly transparent, or just make it known, that, like, I also went through a divorce with my business, and that was hotly contested, meaning he wanted the value of the business. And when it’s yours, that you built, and things like that, it’s just horrific. So I like to be transparent about that, so people protect themselves, you know, and really know what it’s going to mean if things go south when you have a business. So obviously, I’m like, prenup, prenup, prenup. If you have a business now, you know, to protect it. Because for me, it would be so heartbreaking to have to sell this in order to pay somebody off, and that’s what would have happened, most likely.

Rebecca: Or something. I feel like we were so early on that when it came down to court, they were just like, “What do you even have?”

Stephanie: Yeah, the value.

Rebecca: Just nothing.

Stephanie: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Rebecca: And I was like, “Well, we have some equipment.” We didn’t have a location or anything. So we just had some equipment. But I was like, “The clients —” well, even the clients weren’t — they were already all gone with him. I was like, “I just want the name.” And there’s no value to it.

Stephanie: Yep.

Rebecca: And it was just silly. And he had already started his own, so he cut himself out of really any rights to it. Because why would you start your own if you really wanted it?

Stephanie: Exactly. Yeah. A hundred percent. I got you. How many staff did you have when the divorce proceedings started? What was the size of the business?

Rebecca: Very small.

Stephanie: Oh, yeah. Okay. Which is good, for…

Rebecca: Yeah. We just had a few people, and at that point, he had so much control. We were paying them cash. We did not have workman’s comp. It was, like, totally under the table. Yeah, he was against doing things the right way, against paying taxes.

Stephanie: Sounds like you could maybe make a call into the Department of Workforce Development, if you wanted to.

Rebecca: After a couple margaritas, I might get a little salty. I’ve had my salty moments, but I’ve been able to watch that cleaning company fizzle out very quickly.

Stephanie: You just sit back and watch.

When Employees Leave to Start Their Own Company

Rebecca: And he was never the person to run the schedule or the books or the invoicing or anything.

Stephanie: It’s all so encompassing. And that often happens with ex-husbands, but also former employees, where they’re like, “I’m gonna go open a cleaning business, and, you know, screw you,” fingers out the window. And I’m like, “Best of luck.” And in my head, I’m thinking, “You have no idea what’s coming at you.” And anybody listening who’s like, yes, I’ve had employees leave, and you’re so afraid that your whole client base is gonna, like — just wait. Keep doing what you’re doing. Focus on what you can do to improve, because most people are going to fail at small business. That’s not me being a bitch. That’s me stating facts and data. Most small businesses are gonna fail, or never get beyond having a full schedule themselves, right? So it’s just like, cool. They take 20 clients, and then they’re full. And then they call out, because they’re a one-man band, or they try to work with their friend, and it goes badly. And, like, there’s all these scenarios that I’ve seen played out with former employees, and it’s just like, I wish them the best. I’m like, I want you to make a good living. You can make more money if you just go clean by yourself. Of course you can, because I can’t pay that. You know what I mean? I have to pay all the other stuff. So it’s just like, just wait. And then I’m like, you’re good. You’re fine.

Rebecca: That actually just happened to me last week.

Stephanie: Oh really? Tell me.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well, this girl started, and we’re in a small town, rural Wisconsin, and everyone talks. So, all of a sudden, I get a text, and one ex-employee said, “Well, you know, the girl you hired is starting a cleaning company.” So she was only with me a few days, and she was already passing out drink coasters to establishments, and signs, of mine, on my behalf. And then I went to her and I said, “So what’s going on?” And she said, “No, maybe someday.” And a little later — okay. And I was just gone on vacation, and one of my team leads sent me screenshots and was like, “Okay, she did start her own company. Look.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh!” So I did call her out on it, and I said, “And it’s not even about the competition, because I’m not like that. There’s so much cleaning. I could never clean everywhere. I like to support other people too. I wish you well.” And I said, “And if you would have been a little bit more respectful in speaking to me, I probably would have let you know a few people that you could have started with. I would have helped you,” because that’s who I am. Always will be, even though she started it like that. If she just would have spoken respectfully when I confronted her, I would have said, “Well, here’s a few clients. They would probably take your one or two days off of work and be flexible with you.” Because those people also need cleanings, and I care that they get it.

Stephanie: A hundred percent. Yeah. No, I get it. I had one of my best cleaners ever — and I will say that her name is Macy — and she left and started cleaning. And I was, like, recommending Macy so much, because I knew she wanted to, you know, have a kid and all of these things. And I’m just like — because she communicated with me, and she was a queen when she worked here, and she still is a queen. Like, it changes the whole dynamic of, like, I wish you well, literally, but don’t fuck me over, right? Don’t lie to me. You know.

Rebecca: And my last text message to her, I said, “I wish you a lot of luck,” and she came back very rude again.

Stephanie: Oh, she got sassy with you repeatedly? About what, though? What did she say?

Rebecca: Well, she had a bunch of my drink coasters, because I did a promotion in our area and passed out Dells-Maid drink coasters. So she had a bunch, and I said I just would like them back, and she said, “Well, come to my car and pick them up, you or your team lead.” And I have it in a text, just in case the police were to show up and we were taking something out of her car. Yeah, and so we went there — no coasters. And Jen is like, “We’ll come back tomorrow,” because she said, “Over the weekend, come pick them up.” The next day, no coasters.

Stephanie: Oh, so she’s playing these games.

Rebecca: Yeah, and I just want to walk. Like, can’t we just move forward? We’re adults here.

Stephanie: Yeah, for real.

Rebecca: So, your cleaning company can have my stuff back. I’ll give you your check.

Stephanie: But also, like, your coasters are gonna have your information, so, like, it doesn’t benefit her.

Rebecca: Yeah, I think she was maybe testing the waters on how it feels to be a business owner and to promote. Which, okay, well, thank you for promoting. I went out last night for dinner to one of the establishments where she brought coasters, and I looked around and was like, “Well, there’s my drink coasters,” and they were still chatting with me. I was like, “Cool, we’re good, we’re good.”

Parting Ways With Clients and Staff

Rebecca: I just want to always part ways with any employee or client maturely, respectfully.

Stephanie: Yeah.

Rebecca: I wish you well.

Stephanie: Yeah. I think that’s one of the hardest lessons learned as a business owner: realizing either your communication skills most likely have to improve, but also coming upon the sobering realization and reality that a lot of people do not know how to communicate well, and do not know how to deal with uncomfortable situations. And I can say — I make episodes about it all the time — like, that’s one of my biggest struggles. And so when something is not going well, or somebody needs to leave, people really struggle with just saying it, you know, and being communicative. And so it can be so frustrating that you’re dealing with just so many personalities.

Rebecca: Yeah, you don’t know what you’re getting, and everything’s hunky dory when they get hired. Or even a client, when you have to let go of a client, when it just doesn’t feel comfortable anymore. I like to say, “I don’t think that we are making you happy.” Yep, and that affects us, because that’s what we strive for: five-star reviews, and, you know, taking that off people’s plate. Yeah, so they come home from work and they’re like, “Oh, thank gosh, Dells-Maid was here.” Yep, that’s what we strive for. So if we’re not making you happy anymore, like, the partnership should just end.

Stephanie: Really coming at it from that angle — such a good way to phrase it. So delicate, because at the end of the day, it’s like, I want you to be happy, and if we’re not the one to do that, I want you to find that person. Yeah, you know, and it’s just like firing people. Anytime people feel bad about firing somebody, I’m like, by keeping them in this job that’s clearly not a good fit for them or for us, we’re stopping them from moving on to a great job that is for them. Or, you know, you could think about it with, like, relationships. Like, you are stopping them from finding the love of their life because you won’t break up with them.

Rebecca: That’s true. Yeah.

Healing and Doing It Herself

Stephanie: So, okay, coming back to the divorce, you got through that battle, and then you started to rebuild. What was your mindset like? How were you feeling in that moment of, like, getting through it? Because I know how, like, kind of depressed I was when that was all happening.

Rebecca: Yeah. Right. I suppose I leaned on my daughter. She was sixteen, seventeen at the time, and she was doing a majority of my cleaning. So it was, like, her part-time, full-time job. She was at, like, 30 hours, but she was doing the majority of the cleaning.

Stephanie: While going to school? That’s amazing. Good for her. Great work ethic you’ve given her, yeah.

Rebecca: So I have to attribute that, because while I was healing myself — my heart, my head — healing from the abuse we all went through, and realizing that I am competent to do it myself. And you have to, like, rebuild your head mentally.

Stephanie: Like, was that some of the language he would use? Of, like, you don’t know how to do this? Or, like, what was it like?

Rebecca: Super weird. Like, he wanted me to clean all day, do the linens. I ran all the linens at night. I still did all the bookwork and everything. But I struggle with migraines, so here and there, I can’t necessarily go out and do the cleaning.

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: Or, if I can, I’m laying on the bed for five minutes and then back up. So I would want — I’m like, you just take the employees and go. And then he said, “Well, you need to be cleaning.” So it was like everything was on my plate. So it was a struggle to ever get to the point where you’re like, what I’m doing is enough. And it’s actually a lot, every single day. And most days I don’t clean. Yeah, but what I do do is insane. At the end of the day, I’m like, my brain hurts so bad. I’ve made so many decisions. I don’t even want to pick dinner.

Stephanie: Well, and just discounting that — like, people think that it’s just cleaning, like that’s all that goes into a cleaning business, is just physically doing cleaning. And everybody listening now, chime in the comments on how many times we’ve heard that before. And it’s like, there’s so much that goes into running any business, but specifically this. It’s hard labor. And then, yeah, doing all the invoicing, the books, communicating with clients, estimates, trying to market, and all of this stuff. Like, it’s just so overwhelming. And so for somebody to be like, “Well, you’re not doing enough,” when you’re doing it all — how frustrating!

Rebecca: I was barely sleeping, because I just had so much on my plate. At the end of the cleaning day, we would drop at the laundromat, and I would get out and put it all in and get it going. And then I’m sitting on my phone. Like, by the time I get it all folded and can even get home and get food, I was dying.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh!

Rebecca: And it just felt like it was never-ending, for nothing. Yep, just helping people and cleaning. But now it feels different.

Stephanie: Yeah, you are building something.

Rebecca: I am building something great, where I am supporting these women, and they’re supporting their families. They have flexible schedules. I feel like that’s my sweet spot.

Stephanie: Yes, I can relate. As you see, in our office here, that’s what makes me so happy: just being able to give them something they’re not going to find elsewhere. Because, right, as most of us know, we’re employing mothers, we’re employing people who do not have flexibility in other places where they need it. They need to pick up their kids, and the world is not set up for that in the middle of the day. A job is not going to let you just leave.

Rebecca: No. I just have the girls, and we work in teams. Like, they’re all in a vehicle together. So if someone has that, they just take their own vehicle. Yeah, leave, come back to the team wherever they’re at, and it works perfect.

The Vacation Rental Market in the Dells

Stephanie: So I’d love to hear kind of your business split. Obviously — for those of you guys not familiar with Wisconsin, I know that’s shocking — Wisconsin Dells is a huge vacation area. Highly recommend. It’s super fun. Take your kids to Wisconsin Dells. It’s very fun. We would go on field trips all the time to the Dells. But explain what the market is there.

Rebecca: Well, it’s a lot of vacation rentals, but in the Dells area specifically, they are on in the summer, completely off in the winter, because they don’t want their water running and their pipes freezing. So they don’t really care about a little bit of revenue. Now, three years ago, I moved from where I initially started the business, by Baraboo, so it was south of the Dells. Now I’m in Friendship, which is north of the Dells. So it was an easy transition with clients. I let a few go and just kind of, yep, swooped up there. Now, up by Castle Rock Lake, there’s a lot of ice fishing and snowmobiling.

Stephanie: Nice.

Rebecca: So they stay open. Cabins in the winter.

Stephanie: Yeah. So they’re staying open. So that’s better for you, to keep that revenue going.

Rebecca: Yeah. It’s not the best revenue.

Stephanie: Yeah. No, I understand. I mean, this is one of the biggest challenges of having a vacation rental heavy business. Just like our friends in Florida — it’s the opposite for them. Summers can be very slow, and then the winters pop off, because that’s when people go south. So it’s kind of the reverse for us.

Rebecca: Right. Yeah. But there’s so much that goes into the vacation rentals: flexible scheduling, the linens. We don’t wash on site. Yeah, we take it with us.

Stephanie: Wow.

Rebecca: So we’re always loading up. One house sleeps 28. That’s six giant linen bags.

Stephanie: Oh my god.

Rebecca: It’s so much. It’s so heavy. Yeah. And if any of it’s wet, it’s even heavier. It’s crazy. So then in the summer I have two or three linen people, and they’ll just come and take linens.

Stephanie: Okay.

Rebecca: They process at the local laundromat, for now.

Stephanie: I was going to ask how you handle that, because, I mean, it’s so much volume, so much.

Rebecca: Well, you need those industrial sized washers and dryers. Nothing at home could handle that amount, right? Or get through it fast enough.

Stephanie: So tell me — I want to know logistically, because you do, you know, specialize in vacation rentals, and we have a lot of owners who, you know, don’t always listen to me. Like, just because I don’t like them doesn’t mean they’re not lucrative as hell. It’s just we’d rather focus, you know, on residential at this point, and commercial. But there is a lot of money that can be made, absolutely. But the logistical clusterfuck — for lack of a better word, I think that’s actually the best word to describe it, clusterfuck — because the laundry, the supplies, the making sure everything is stocked and, you know, documented for the owners, so that if they get a claim from, like, Airbnb… Yeah, and ever-changing reviews of your services as well. It’s not the same client that you’re going to see all the time. You don’t know who’s walking in, right?

Rebecca: We’ve got some of the pickiest people, yeah, that are just finding the weirdest stuff. And then our client comes back and they’re like, “Well, actually, I think it’s time for a deep clean,” because that’s not stuff we touch.

Stephanie: Correct.

Rebecca: We don’t do under. We don’t have time for that.

Stephanie: Yeah, you know, you do what you can see, exactly.

Rebecca: Yep, but just like in a hotel, you’re not moving every piece of furniture.

Stephanie: No. Yeah. Like, we actually — this just happened yesterday. We still have some grandfathered in that we really love, and we don’t take on any new. We don’t take any new vacation rentals. Like, none at all. It’s off the website. I’m like, we’re not doing this. But I think we have six or eight, maybe, that we still service, and one of them, they’re fantastic, they’re really wonderful, and we got an email yesterday. They’re like, we’ve got a Karen in our Airbnb, and, you know, she’s just really picky, clearly. But she did look in the oven, and they’re like, if you guys could add an oven cleaning to the next one. Because we’re not doing — you know, we’re checking it, maybe a quick wipe down, but we’re not doing an oven cleaning every turnover, right?

Rebecca: So I do have all my clients put in one of those oven mats.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s a good idea.

Rebecca: Because you can pull that oven mat out, lay it on the door, quick wipe it off, slide it right back in. So clean.

Stephanie: That’s a good tip. I love that.

Rebecca: And then you just vacuum up the crumbs.

Stephanie: Yeah. Okay. That’s a good one. I like it. But yeah, so it’s just like, you’re dealing with new people. The pressure is high compared to regular residential, where obviously we want to do a great job, but it’s a lot more forgiving, because you build that relationship. Whereas this is a stranger.

Rebecca: It’s like a hotel. The person coming in is a stranger.

Stephanie: Exactly. And so it’s this weird, like, middleman of — usually it’s, you know, the guest, Airbnb, the owner, and then you. So it’s like all of these layers of people that you’re trying to make happy. So yeah. But the volume is great. That’s what’s so attractive, is that it’s a lot more volume.

Rebecca: You know, it’s easier to manage with ZenMaid. I use the pictures.

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: Only for the vacation rentals, just so that if someone comes back and says, “Well, the bed wasn’t made,” or it just looked terrible — those high-level things, you can see in a picture. Not, like, “Well, I found this under the bed.”

Stephanie: Yep.

Rebecca: Yeah, it’s like we’re not feeling the pinch there.

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. No, a hundred percent. And, you know, it does work. I think that’s a question people get about ZenMaid, or scheduling softwares in general. Like, we are heavily commercial. We exclusively use ZenMaid. We don’t use a different scheduling software. It works great for vacation rentals. So it works great for a variety of services that you can customize, for sure.

Linens, Storage, and a New Shop

Stephanie: So I’d love to hear what practices you guys put in place — other than ZenMaid, notwithstanding. But, like, talk me through the process. Talk me through the linens. How do you keep things organized? How do you know what house they go back to? Like, all of this, because we used to have this giant rack of, like, laundry baskets, and we’d label them.

Rebecca: Okay, we have linen bags. Okay, yeah, the over-the-shoulder ones, which probably aren’t ideal for repacking.

Stephanie: I don’t — when I used to do it, how do you put square things down into a too-big bag?

Rebecca: So I’m thinking about switching up to square IKEA ones. I’m just trying to save time where I can.

Stephanie: Yeah, just, like, the dirty ones in those, and then the IKEA ones, and then put the clean ones in for the next…

Rebecca: For the dirty set. Yeah, I’m thinking to switch it up. But we do have racks. I was running out of our home shop until just a month ago.

Stephanie: You just got an office?

Rebecca: Well, it’s not an office. I have a home office, but we have a storage unit and a shipping container. Same place, and he allows parking, so I can have the two work vehicles parked there, and then they come, they pull the two work vehicles out, put two personal ones in, yeah, and everyone else can park. All the linens are there, all the supplies are there.

Stephanie: That’s nifty.

Rebecca: Yeah, so now they don’t come to the home office at all. Okay, they just run out of there. It’s working very well.

Stephanie: Wow. That is awesome, and you get that little bit of separation for you as well. Because, I mean, I think a home office is great. Please, nobody get an office before you can financially afford it. I think we feel so much pressure, and especially when we are looking online — online creates the most pressure — of, like, oh my gosh, you have to have this to be legit. It’s like, no, you don’t. You can absolutely run out of your home, but then that separation.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well, I hated having new employees start, because I don’t do an interview — because people maybe will show up for the interview, but then they’re not coming to the first day. And I didn’t have an office to come to, so you don’t just hold interviews. So they would start.

Stephanie: It’s like a working interview.

Rebecca: Yeah. Okay, but it was the weirdest instructions. “Well, you pull down the road, and before you get to the address, you want to pull onto the right side of the road, all the way on the grass, and hang out there. There’ll be other cars, and some of the staff is in the back, packing. And wait till the white minivan pulls around to pick you up.”

Stephanie: I’m like, don’t worry, I’m about to get trafficked.

Rebecca: Yes.

Stephanie: Am I gonna walk away with a kidney?

Rebecca: I’m like, “It’s okay. It will have the emblem on the side. It’s not weird. You’ll get in the back seat. There’ll be three other girls in there.” Give them the names, right?

Stephanie: I’m not gonna lie. That does feel a little scary.

Rebecca: Yeah. Oh, I’m like, as I’m typing it, it’s so weird. Yeah. Then I decided to take a picture. Okay, well, this is where you’ll put your car. So it was still very weird. It’s very weird, and we just wanted privacy for our own personal things. Yeah, so that new people didn’t go back there until we knew we could trust them. But now I’m so glad that it’s not like that. You know, here’s the location. I send a little map. This is where you park. It just feels even more professional.

Stephanie: So, very much so. And, like, you know, you just don’t know who’s coming in. Because when I first started, I worked out of my apartment, probably about a mile down the road here, and that’s where everybody would come. There was a big, like, deck tote — what are they called? You know, like a porch tote — and that’s where I’d put all the supplies. I hadn’t gotten to winter, so I hadn’t thought about that yet, of, like, everything freezing. But yeah, and with new employees knowing where I live — that just doesn’t feel great, because not every person, shockingly, is, you know, a good person that you want knowing where you live. And not that most people can’t Google and find that stuff out now, but still, that separation has got to feel so good for you now.

Rebecca: It does. And I have dogs, so they were getting riled up every morning when everyone came. Ten people coming and packing vehicles and taking stuff and leaving for the day — it’s a lot of chaos. So I think that their quality of life is better, to just, you know, have more privacy of their own. But not all the employees miss the dogs.

Stephanie: Yes. Yeah. I know. Like, actually, we don’t have any dogs here today. We almost always have dogs in here. I think the gals didn’t bring any, because we were having this conversation — we don’t want them freaking out. But yeah, we always have dogs or kids in the office. It just makes it so much more fun, right?

Rebecca: I agree.

Winterizing Your Supplies

Stephanie: Okay, so you just implemented that. That’s going to be huge. Is it temp controlled? And how are you going to handle chemicals?

Rebecca: My team lead Jenna and I were just talking about this. She’s concerned. She’s like, “Well, you know, we have to fix it before it gets below freezing,” because we use a Sprayway glass cleaner, so it’s under pressure. So they get wet on the outside of the can when the temps start to drop. So we’re gonna just put in some fridges and freezers.

Stephanie: Love it.

Rebecca: Yep. Ones that aren’t working anymore. Insulation.

Stephanie: That’s a good idea. Oh, that’s smart. That is Wisconsin. That is such a good idea. Well, the reason I bring this up is, anybody where temps get below freezing, your products are gonna freeze. I can’t tell you how many times I have stood at a sink at the first client’s house thawing out my spray bottle, because I forgot to bring my shit in the night before.

Rebecca: Yes.

Stephanie: Yeah. And I always feel so silly.

Rebecca: Yeah. I don’t know. You’ve got to make it work.

Stephanie: Exactly.

Rebecca: So I think this will work. I’m thinking two, enough for the spray, and then the laundry soaps too need to be insulated. They don’t run very well.

Stephanie: Yeah. No.

Rebecca: They don’t even run very well right now, and we’re only getting to, like, 40.

Stephanie: Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, just all those little things you’ve got to think about. Again, it’s just so overwhelming to think about all of this stuff, and that feels like such a minor, dumb detail. It’s not minor or dumb when all of your cleaners are standing there without product. And that’s when things feel so chaotic, is when you are running around putting out these fires, and you are so angry at yourself, because you’re like, “This shouldn’t even be a thing right now,” and it’s ruining everything.

Rebecca: I really feel like I plan for things to fall apart. I plan for people to forget things, stuff like that. So you put little things in play, and then when it still gets past you, you’re like, “I didn’t plan for that.”

Pricing Vacation Rentals

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah. Oh well. You know, you’ve seen a lot of vacation rentals. What does it look like for you with pricing? Are you giving them flat rates? Like, I want to get into your operations a little bit more, because you do so many vacation rentals. At least for us, we’re near Warrens, so there’s a ton of, like, cabin-y type of places. What’s it like in the Dells? Is it lots of houses? Like, what is the vibe there? How are you deciding how to price them? Are you doing walkthroughs?

Rebecca: Oh, I do do in-person walkthroughs still. I have, I guess at this point, a spreadsheet, because for the most part — unless it’s crazy hairy from a dog or something — you know, a three-bedroom, two-bathroom is about the same. And then I have on that spreadsheet, you know, if there’s too many bonus rooms, there’s a little extra price, sure, yeah, pets or whatever. So I put that together over the years, because I would sit and be like, “Well, yeah, whose house is this like?” So I thought, if I just make a spreadsheet, that’s easier. You just go to the spreadsheet. So I do do a flat rate, unless there’s human or pet biologicals. That’s obviously more. A crazy party — if there’s glitter everywhere. Yeah, and I’ve got a party cleanup add-on, because we’re not ready for that. You know, on any given day, we do so many vacation rentals on a summer day. Yeah, those things really throw you off.

Stephanie: Yeah. What’s, like, the max you’ve done in a day with one team?

Rebecca: With one team? I don’t know. We have, like, the one house that sleeps twenty-eight.

Stephanie: Oh, so yeah, you can’t even compare the houses, because of the size difference.

Rebecca: Right. So the one sleeps twenty-eight. The one next to it sleeps twenty-two. Sometimes those turn on the same day. With me and three other people, we’re at, like, four or five hours. Yeah. There’s so many beds to make. So many beds, and we like to have them stripped. If they’re not stripped, that’s, like, double the time, because now you’re pulling it all off and then putting it back up. So it’s hard.

Why Teams Make Sense for Turnovers

Stephanie: Well, I think — I mean, I feel like your business is a perfect example where teams make so much sense. They make so much sense. So you guys know, like, we do individual cleaners as much as possible. This is a scenario where you’ve got same-day turnovers, and you’re taking the laundry with you. Perfect example of: get teams in there, get in and out, because speed is of the essence, and turnovers are happening during this window, right?

Rebecca: Right. A five-hour window. I think that I went with teams early on because I didn’t really love cleaning. Didn’t love cleaning by myself. And then once you have somebody else, you’re like, “Well, can you carry this? Can you hold the door?” It feels so much better. Yeah. It was just relieving. And I never want anyone to be at work and be like, “God, I just hate them.” So they’re always laughing. They’re messing with each other, having a good time.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. You said you have this really great crew now. Core women that are just amazing.

Rebecca: Yep. I do, and they work together well. This last summer, we brought on some Spanish-speaking employees, so that’s been unique. But they all get along, and we’re kind of like an in-between. Not everyone understands everything. There’s a lot of pointing. So much laughing.

Stephanie: Oh, I bet. Oh, yeah. And just, like, that fun really transcends language, you know? And just everybody respecting and having a good time together. And they’re probably picking up some Spanish. They’re picking up some English. It’s fun.

Rebecca: But it’s nice when you just see your team laughing. Yeah. I think I cleaned a handful of days over the summer, and it was just fun. It’s fun to see that they like each other, they like what they do. They’re good at what they do. You know, they’re like, “Well, no, no, no, we don’t do that like that.” And even little corrections. This is like — they take pride in their work.

Thinking Like the Guest

Stephanie: Yeah. That’s really cool. And the nice thing about vacation rentals — for me, I do enjoy the fact that, anytime I am cleaning one — because I cleaned a couple last trip I was up here — I was like, “Okay, how could I make this special for these people?” This is their vacation they’re coming into. How can I make sure that this looks great for them? I don’t want them walking in after driving hours, or flying, or whatever they’re doing to get here, and it’s like, “Oh shit, this looks bad.” You know, that sucks.

Rebecca: Do you travel much? Do you stay in a lot of Airbnbs?

Stephanie: I do. I do travel a lot, yeah.

Rebecca: So I find that, when I’m a cleaner, or when I’m teaching somebody, you have to put yourself in the mom’s spot. And usually the mom has to pee when she gets there. Ah, let me use the bathroom. And the bathroom has to be perfect, because when she sits down, she looks around, and now she’s found hair. Now she’s not happy. Now maybe there’s hair in the tub. Now she’s gonna keep looking.

Stephanie: Yep. You see that hair, and it’s the catalyst to start looking everywhere, right?

Rebecca: And I feel like a lot of people don’t take a lot of vacations. When my kids were younger, we didn’t take a lot of vacations. So when it is one, it’s a big deal.

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: Or you’ve saved a lot of money and just looked forward to it. Maybe one a year, and you show up, and you’re like, dirty.

Stephanie: Yeah, it sucks, because then you start to feel not comfortable there. And, like, for me, my biggest ick is somebody else’s hair. Like, if I go into a hotel room — it’s so funny, because I’m like, I literally clean shit off a toilet. Like, why is it the hair? I don’t know what it is about hair, for me.

The Test Toenail and Asking for Feedback

Rebecca: I don’t like fingernails.

Stephanie: Yeah, that’s a good one.

Rebecca: I did a commercial quote the other day, and I looked down under a conference room table, and there was a toenail.

Stephanie: Ew!

Rebecca: Giant human toenail. Like, a full toenail, a big toenail. The whole big toenail was under the table. I was like, “There’s a toenail,” and he’s like, “We’re in here every day, every day.” And I was like, “Well, but she cleans.” They have a cleaner on staff, forty hours a week, and she cleans this big facility and another one.

Stephanie: But watch that toenail. How long does it stay there? That’s the test toenail. I love that.

Rebecca: I’ll have to, you know — if I leave it, leave it. Right. If I don’t hear back from them, I’m going to email and say, “Well, I just wanted to let you know…”

Stephanie: Yeah, “I was just wondering if the test toenail was still there, and if you’d like us to at least do a deep clean and show you what we can do.”

Rebecca: Yeah, that’ll be gone. I promise you that. It will be a big jump, because when they go from an hourly employee to a cleaning company, it’s totally different. The sticker shock to them is like, what?

Stephanie: Yeah, but they’re never gonna see a test toenail, and you don’t have to manage anybody. You don’t have to deal with them calling out or anything. Like, you’re paying for a lot of convenience, you know.

Rebecca: Yes. I also express that I lean on feedback. I think ZenMaid sends it out at three days or something. I have it set up — I’m like, every time we clean, you are going to get an email. So it might get annoying. You might want me to shut it off, but I really do want you to tell me if there is a problem. You never want to be out there like, “Oh, we’re awesome, we do great, we have five stars,” and you’ve got five people who are like, “But do you? You come to my house and I don’t like it.” Yeah, I always want the feedback.

Stephanie: Exactly. No, one hundred percent. The service ratings feedback feature has been amazing to implement, to get that internal feedback, because people just want to be heard, and they want the problem fixed, but they don’t want to go to Google and leave you a bad review, for the most part. Like, if they’re doing that, it’s because they feel like they can’t communicate with you directly, and that’s on us, then. Like, we haven’t made it clear to them what this relationship should look like, and been proactive in asking, like, is there anything at all that we can do better or differently?

Rebecca: At every walkthrough, I stress that I always want feedback, because I am not usually the one there. And I always want to stay connected.

Splitting the Work Within a Team

Stephanie: Yeah, on point when it comes to quality, for sure. So, coming back to actually moving through a home with a team — how do you split the work? How do you make sure everybody’s not running on top of each other when you’re running teams like this? Because that’s the thing I struggle with — anytime you have, like, too many cooks in the kitchen, if you will, it’s chaotic. And so, a lot of people I know have systems. For us, we, like, do not clean in the same spaces. That’s the rule. You are not in the same room until the very end. Maybe that makes sense.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well, I like to go on very large deep cleans, because they feel overwhelming to my team leads, you know, in the first place. Because somebody has to have that list. Yeah. And we’re starting high and working low, and I like to go downstairs first, and then come up, and then upstairs, and then come down, and then out the door. So you can’t have people, like, wandering around. Yeah, I’m like, okay, well — and I like people to do what they like to do.

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: So I was like, well, who wants a bathroom? So I assign the bathrooms. Who wants to dust? And they kind of know, like, when we’re going to get there, who’s going to ask for what. I’m like, and who wants to dust? Maybe somebody’s already holding it. They’re like, “It’s me, it’s me.” “I already took the dumpster.” So you give everybody a task, and then I like it when they come back and say, “Okay, I’m done with that. What’s next?”

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: I like to communicate, because you never want to double clean. I had that just the other day. I had a brand new employee, and she speaks straight Spanish. Yeah, and I tried to show her just the toilet bowl needed to be done, because I did the whole bathroom. And all of a sudden, I looked back, and she’s cleaning the whole thing. I’m like, oh shoot, shoot, we’re double cleaning. Yeah, I went and I found my team lead that speaks Spanish, and I was like, help me. Yeah, help me. I can text, and I’m like, okay, the bathroom is done. But it takes so much time. I forgot where we’re going.

Stephanie: We’re talking about splitting the work.

Rebecca: Oh, yeah. So, like, in vacation rentals — if they have three or four vacation rentals, that’s not uncommon in a day — one person is probably doing bathrooms all day, just because that’s what they want to do. And one person’s doing the supplies.

Stephanie: Honestly, I would be the person who likes being sent in to do bathrooms all day. I hate making beds. Bunk beds make you want to jump off a cliff.

Rebecca: We don’t make bunk beds anymore. Yeah, we only do the fitted sheet. Yeah, make it camp style, because I’ve lost too many knuckle skins and nails.

Stephanie: Yeah, those bunk beds are terrible. I know, they’re not made to be made. I’ll have Crystal tell you the tale — my HR director — because she was very, very pregnant, and she had to go clean a vacation rental. And her describing making this, like, bunk bed is the funniest thing ever, because she’s, like, heaving onto the bed. Oh yeah, yeah. This big belly.

Rebecca: I used to jump. Yeah, you’re holding the two corners, and you jump and hope to God you make the two corners. You slam your whole front side.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh, it’s just — yeah, not fun, not fun at all.

Rebecca: No. But with our sheets, we’ve gotten it down. I use size bands that are, like, king, queen, twin, labeled. So when you get there, there’s bands with a fitted and a flat that the laundry person put together really nice. All the pillowcases are together.

Stephanie: Nice. So it’s, like, the prep work goes into it, to make you guys as efficient as possible at the job. I love that.

Rebecca: Yeah. With the house that sleeps twenty-eight — and even the twenty-two — I’ve gone as far as putting little snaps on the sheets, because we’ve got twin, full, queen, and king there.

Stephanie: Mm-hmm. And how many times are you going to put the wrong one on? Oh no, that’s when I freak out. I have a total bitch fit. And, like, there was one that was in Warrens, and we ended up dropping them. It was huge. It, like, slept twenty or whatever, and every single person in this office has cried at that place, because you get so frustrated. And the owners were very frustrating. They were super cheap too. They were literally driving hours up to clean it themselves, and then they’d, like, complain about our price. And I’m just like, okay, you do it then.

Rebecca: Yeah, I do say that a lot. I’m like, well, I guess clean it yourself.

Stephanie: Yeah, clean it yourself. Oh, you can’t? You have to rely on somebody else? Here, that costs money.

Rebecca: I just had one the other day that I quoted, and you could tell by the email address that it’s a person in real estate finance. Okay, yeah, and they came back with, “I’m just really not comfortable with that price.” Oh yeah, not comfortable. You have ten bedrooms. And four bathrooms. And how many kitchens in that house? And you weren’t comfortable? Well, I’m not comfortable cleaning it for less.

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. If we’re talking about comfort here. You know, it’s so funny, because I think, especially, the bigger the vacation rental gets, the more unreasonable and out of touch the owners are. I swear to God. They get this place, and they want to help, you know, supplement the income or cover the mortgage, and this is their vacation home, and they are insane when it comes to what they think a reasonable price is, or what they expect you to do.

Saying No to Property Manager Requests

Stephanie: I’d love to hear — because one of the issues that we have had continually with owners is them constantly pushing us to basically do property manager behavior. And so, how do you handle requests? What do you do? What do you not accommodate? Especially in the winter, we’ve had people ask us to shovel snow. We’ve had just crazy shit. Like, we’re not a property manager, right?

Rebecca: I suppose I just say from the beginning, when they start talking about the grill, or the fire pit, or hauling firewood — we’ve been asked to haul firewood. Yeah, yeah. I just say, “Well, you know, we’re not dressed for the elements. We’re dressed to be cleaning inside your home, on white carpet.” You know, clean, sanitary, right? Now you want us to step outside and clean up cigarette butts? Or I had one guy — it was a huge vacation rental, and it had a pond, and there was, like, a bouncy thing out in the middle. And he’s like, “Well, what if a toy is left out there? Who’s supposed to go?” Who’s gonna go swim across the lake? He says, “Put in the boat and go get the thing.” What if I slipped and fell off that into… Oh, I was out. I was out. I was like, no. I was very kind, and then I left, and I typed it all up, and I was like, that’s just all not stuff we do. Yep, just not.

Stephanie: Yeah, I know. And that’s saying they’re not prepared. Like, they want the cleaners to do everything.

Rebecca: Yeah, they want the cleaners to do everything.

Stephanie: One of our current owners — bless his heart, as the Southerners would say — he is very neurotic. Like, I can’t imagine being married to this man. I mean, he’s got spreadsheets for spreadsheets, and I’m like, you’re too stressed out to have a place that’s away. But we’ve worked with them for years, so we love them to death. He’s wonderful in a lot of ways, very prepared. But anyway, they’re right on a lake, and some guests had left their fishing pole, and I guess it had, like, floated into the lake. And he was like, “Well, can you guys get it?” And we’re like, it’s in the lake. And he’s like, “Yeah, can you guys get it?” Like, no.

Rebecca: I also worry about bees. Yeah, because vacation rentals aren’t upkept like your own house, so you do find a lot of bees. When one of the cleaners gets stung, how do you still want them to work? How do you even want them to work as fast?

Stephanie: Yeah. Exactly.

Rebecca: I feel so bad. My daughter got one on the back of her leg once. Then she could barely walk.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh. And now you’re like, okay, go make a bed.

Rebecca: Yeah. Exactly. Get up there. No, we really stick to the inside. So I do try to shy away as much as I can from exterior work. Had one recently, and he’s like, “No, let me show you the pool vacuum. Maybe you’ll do it for me.” I’m like, well, just because you show me the pool vacuum doesn’t mean I’m… Yeah, all right. Show me the pool vacuum. And we walked out there, and he showed me. And my insurance agent told me, “Don’t move large furniture, because you’re not covered if you scratch the floor.” So we don’t do that. Well, we also can’t do hot tubs. We’re not adding chemicals to the hot tub.

Stephanie: Yeah, that’s a big request.

Rebecca: Yeah, especially around Castle Rock. Like, tons of hot tubs. No, I can’t do that. Otherwise, I would have to have different insurance and take courses to know how to do pool upkeep. Yeah. Now he shows me this vacuum, and he’s like, “So easy. You just put it in, and then take it out when you leave.” Well, what happens with this pool vacuum if I go to pull it out, and now I break the thing off?

Stephanie: Exactly. Yeah. Now I’m in trouble. And it’s just so much risk that we are opening ourselves up to, for no reward. They’re not going to pay you more for all of this stuff. So it’s like, if you’re not going to pay me more, I’m incurring the risk. My cleaners are incurring the risk. And, like, “You just put it in, and then you come take it out.” It’s always the word “just,” isn’t it? Just do this. Just, it’s no big deal.

Rebecca: It’s like, yeah. Well, we had the master closet with some urine in it. Oh, yeah, and it was on an air mattress that was deflated, and she said, “Can you just put that in the garage?” I’m like, “It has active urine all over it.” There’s a puddle. I know — she sent the picture. She said, “Can you just put that in the…?” I said, “Well, what did you want me to do with the pee?”

Stephanie: Exactly. Should I ship it to you? You know.

Party Houses and Strange Finds

Stephanie: I know. So you walked in, and we immediately started talking about stories, because you do a lot of places where bachelor parties go, bachelorette parties go, just parties in general. And it’s Wisconsin — we can throw down. We like a little, you know, drink at the end of the day, sometimes in the middle of the day. And so talk to me about party houses, and some of the things — you know, pee in the master closet, checking closets — things you don’t really think about in regular house cleaning at all. Like, you don’t think to check the closets for pee, right?

Rebecca: The one house specifically — I don’t know why that shower gets puked in. It’s a half…

Stephanie: It’s a designated puke shower.

Rebecca: Three times, and we’ve had this one for just over a year. Three times. And you wouldn’t think it’s being used, because we hang a bath mat and a towel and a washcloth, so from the outside it looks unused. But the person has opened the door, gone inside, puked, and shut the door. Now it looks unused. Could you imagine coming into a vacation rental and there’s dried puke all over the shower? Right, because maybe the cleaner didn’t check it, thinking it looks clean. Often, we have drawers in the bathroom that are just full of water and have a towel sitting in a puddle of water. Like, but why?

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh, why? That’s one thing that I will say: you have to check every drawer. You have to check every closet. You have to check under every bed, every time. Because, yeah, I mean, I had my cleaner Ashley Vian, and she’s like, “Yeah, there was a giant pair of very silky red panties under one of the beds one time.” And I’m like, “I’m glad you checked under the bed.”

Rebecca: Yes. Lots of weird stuff. Yeah. On the topic of higher-end vacation rentals, they want more and want to spend less. You also have a different level of guests. Because when I would take my kids somewhere, I would be like, “Don’t jump on the bed. You know, don’t break that. I don’t want to have to pay for that.” But when it’s a higher end one, they don’t say anything. So I had two next to each other — we’ve been done with them forever ago. But you would find, like, a peanut butter sandwich upside down in a dresser drawer.

Stephanie: Oh my god!

Rebecca: A pizza on a pizza cardboard on the top of a bunk bed. You’re like, how did your parents ever let you even get that out of the kitchen? Yeah, yeah. In that one, they’ve left all the windows open, and then you come in, and there’s just flies everywhere, because they’ve left food all over. Like, well, gotta clean it, because now you have a guest coming in four hours.

Stephanie: Exactly. And I just, like, imagine you with, like, a fly swatter. Yeah, that is crazy.

Firing a Client on Principle

Rebecca: Yeah, those ones I let go. It was a gentleman, and he wasn’t making enough on a Valentine’s Day booking. Okay, it was two nights, and this place had a rain shower off the kitchen. Okay, it was so bougie. Yeah, it was only one couple coming, so, you know, this is special for her. Yeah, and he said, “Well, it’s not going to make me enough money, so I’m going to cancel the booking.” And I said, “Oh, geez, don’t do this,” like, morally.

Stephanie: Yeah, you’re just a dick.

Rebecca: Yeah, no. I was like, “If you cancel this booking, I’m going to have to part ways.” And he’s like, “You’re going to say goodbye to all of this revenue?” I was like, “Yes, sir. You’re crushing one woman’s heart, which crushed my heart.”

Stephanie: Yes, good for you. And I really can’t stand it when you are putting your foot down, and a client’s like, “Oh, you’re going to not take my money?” It’s like, right, yeah. Like, to me, that’s one of the best feelings. Like, anytime we have broken up with a client, and they come back with, like, “You’re going to refuse my money?” It’s like, actually, I am. Yeah, and, like, it’s such a powerful feeling.

Rebecca: Well, that was so early on, but I was like, that’s the principle of it. And that was even in February, and I was like, “I will find revenue to replace this, but you, sir, are gone.”

Stephanie: Yes, yes, yeah. Oh, that’s amazing. That’s hard, but, I don’t know. You just figure that guy now has to find something else.

Rebecca: Yep. Last minute. It was, like, four days before. They were so looking forward to that. Or he was looking forward to surprising her.

Stephanie: Oh gosh.

Rebecca: I don’t know. I live for the memories that everyone’s making.

Stephanie: Yeah. You sound like a romantic.

Rebecca: Yeah. I love Valentine’s Day. I got together with my now husband, and his birthday’s actually Valentine’s Day.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh! So wonderful.

Rebecca: I was like, my whole life, I’ve been celebrating you. Like, I love Valentine’s.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s so romantic. Isn’t that cute? That’s so sweet. Oh my gosh! Does he clean with you?

Why Couples and Family Don’t Work Here

Rebecca: He does not. He’s a very good cleaner, but no. I’ve learned my lesson. You should probably not mix stuff like that. This is mine. This is my baby. We could do something else together and have it be our baby, but…

Stephanie: Like, I think that’s so wise. And, you know, I have had several couples on. I have many people on who work with their partner. And I always, you know, ask lots of questions, because I’m like, it can work. I want to know how you guys make it work. Because honestly, I don’t ever want to do that. I never want to work with a romantic partner. Like, ever. You know what I mean? I’m a bossy woman, shockingly. And I go into that mode of, like — not snappy, but almost just, like, do this, do this, do this. Direct. And most romantic partners do not take kindly to that. And that’s not how I act in my relationship, because I’m in boss mode instead of, like, loving mode, you know what I mean? So it’s like, I want those two things separate.

Rebecca: Yeah, I don’t always love it when a couple works together. Like, when I was on my vacation, we had, like, an early sickness go around in our area, and I didn’t get it. It has gone around, but one day the two that are in a couple, they both were sick, and they both had a fever. And we don’t want them to come to work if they’re sick. We don’t want anyone to get sick. We don’t want to bring it into someone’s house or vacation. Like, as soon as someone’s sick, I’m like, okay, stay home, stay home. And with a couple…

Stephanie: Yeah, yeah. And that’s like — we put into the policy, no immediate family members of anybody. We don’t hire them, and we also do not hire couples. Like, really, that’s a zero tolerance policy, because we got burned so much. Like, when one couldn’t make it, or they wanted to have the same shifts, and they wanted so much when it came to convenience on their part, which made sense. But it’s like, we can’t accommodate this always, and we don’t do this for anybody else. Nobody else gets to request that, you know? And also, if you have disciplinary issues with one, the other, out of loyalty, must go along with it.

Rebecca: Yeah, I’ve had that.

Stephanie: And so when one quits, the other is going to follow suit. So instead of being out one staff member, you’re out two. And so we just — even though I’m sure there are many people listening who have couples working, or cousins or family members working for them. I’ve talked to people who have that, and they have good experiences. We have just gotten burned to the point of, like, we just don’t want to open this door anymore. Like, just no more. No more family members. You know, it just makes sense.

Rebecca: Yeah, I have been burned, but there’s so many people who are great. And those are, like, great referrals. Usually it’s like, “Hey, my cousin’s super good.” Or they, like, love their job, and they want to bring a great person.

Stephanie: Yeah. Like, yeah, okay. So, yeah, I’m not telling you guys to do that. I’m just saying that’s a decision we’ve made, to just blunt that a little bit. Of, like, let’s not do that. We’ve had enough bad experiences.

Leaning on AI and Mentors

Stephanie: So, what does the past year look like? Obviously, you know, you reached out to me — you had just lost an assistant, I believe, when you first reached out to me? And so, tell me, where is the business at now? Where do you want it to go? I just want to hear about what you’re up to now.

Rebecca: Well, I suppose when I had lost the assistant — I’ve gone through a couple personal assistants, thinking that’s what I need. I don’t know, I guess I picture your girls out here. And I haven’t found that. Not yet. Maybe now with my girls. Yeah. Because I don’t want them to clean so much. I just want them to be, like, my…

Stephanie: Yeah. And after the podcast, we’re gonna go around. I’m gonna show you some insider stuff, of, like, operations, and anything you want to see. Like, you can see it.

Rebecca: So yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s kind of my goal. I am leaning more on AI now, instead of thinking that I need someone else. Yep, because ChatGPT is amazing. Yes, and it can create a lot of stuff for me. Yep, training materials, and literally anything. So, the amount of money I’ve spent over the years on a personal assistant, thinking that someone needs to run my Facebook — I can do that. So while I have taken more back on my plate, it’s more doable.

Stephanie: It’s so funny. Literally yesterday in our operations meeting, which we do every Wednesday, we had a thought experiment, and this is something we talked about. Of, like, okay, what would have to happen efficiency-wise for us to double in size and not add office staff? And it’s AI, right? Every single one of those ladies is leaning so heavily into AI as much as possible, of, like, what can be done to make us all faster and more efficient? Because I’m like, I’d prefer not to add another manager. I would prefer all of us make more money.

Rebecca: Yeah, they’d all prefer that too.

Stephanie: So, right. But it’s like, I also don’t want to overwork them. So it’s like, okay, what has to happen? Well, we need to be able to cut your guys’ current workload, to be able to accomplish more in the same amount of time. And AI is the way. It is the way. It’s just incredible what it does for us.

Rebecca: I am pulling on a couple of mentors from SCORE Wisconsin. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of it.

Stephanie: No, I haven’t.

Rebecca: But you can get free mentors. So I’ve signed up for three that have cleaning company backgrounds.

Stephanie: Oh, that’s awesome.

Rebecca: And one commercial, and I want to grow my commercial. So that’ll be important.

Stephanie: What do you have now for commercial, to interrupt?

Rebecca: Just a few. Just a handful, like five accounts. Mine are, like, just their offices and a couple bathrooms and a break room. But it’s so consistent, you know.

Stephanie: That’s the beautiful thing, especially to blunt — if you do have a winter slowdown, that’ll help a ton, right?

Rebecca: So that’s kind of where my focus is now, because I have this team, and I don’t want them to lose any of their hours. Yeah, I’ve kind of shaved off my summer help. I was up to, like, twenty-five people, which was wild.

Stephanie: Yeah, but especially without ZenMaid — holy shit! I can’t imagine.

Rebecca: Well, that’s why I brought on ZenMaid, and then I was able to do that, because I just put it in, and it was all just magic. Amazing. Yeah, so I was able to have, like, three crews out, two in vehicles, and then they met at a location that needed — yep, they needed ten to fifteen two-bedroom, two-bath condos, three days a week. Added here and there, and then they added, and they went to twenty-one one day.

Stephanie: Oh my!

Rebecca: I had to go clean that day, and it was just a madhouse.

Stephanie: I cannot fathom that in five hours.

Rebecca: In five hours, so you’re, like…

Stephanie: That feels so — okay. Like, my blood pressure is rising even hearing that. Like, I can’t, I can’t do it.

Rebecca: And it’s sweat, and you’re just dripping with sweat, and you cannot stop.

Stephanie: No, because the time is ticking. It’s like you’re running a marathon, but you need to run it within this time. You must complete it, or all the tiles fall out of the floor and you die.

Rebecca: Yeah, exactly.

Stephanie: The floor is lava.

Rebecca: Yes, the floor is lava. Yeah. So it’s kind of crazy. I guess I’m looking to grow, but I don’t ever want to grow too fast, so that the quality doesn’t stay. So it doesn’t fall apart. I was able to use ChatGPT for this one mentor who is asking me for numbers. And that was one of my goals I made at the beginning of the year, to understand my numbers in 2026. Because I don’t really — if you say, “Well, how much profit did you make?” I don’t know. “How much did you make last year? What’s your profit and loss?” No idea. I just know that I pay all my bills, and I make my payroll every week, and I live comfortably.

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly.

Rebecca: I think I’m doing well. I’m kind of like that. But my goal in 2026 was to understand. So this gentleman asked me for all these documents. I pumped it into ChatGPT, and it said, “Well, can you give me your taxes and all this stuff?” Okay, so this is where I upgraded, just now, to the paid ChatGPT. And I put all this stuff in, and it pumped me out all these documents, a profit and loss. So I just sent it all to this guy, and I said, “Well, with the help of ChatGPT — yes, just so you know, I used AI to create these, but I’ve reviewed it, and I believe that these are my numbers.” And I was like, holy cow!

Stephanie: Yes. The amount of stuff you can do — yeah, it’s like a phone a friend. Yeah, it really is. And, like, for us, the data analytics tools that it has allowed us to create and to understand — like you said, coming back to comprehension — like, you can see all these numbers. Even for us, we’ve always used QuickBooks, we’ve always had access to this, but just to slog through it and see patterns… That’s the biggest thing I love about AI, is allowing me to see things within the numbers that I was not aware of. For example, Katie, my customer relations manager — she put in, you know, the estimates that were not closing. Because that’s our current focus: getting our close rate up. We’re revamping the sales process currently, to change some things, because we did a price increase. We did all these changes, and it’s like, okay, cool, how can we close higher at this higher price? That’s the goal. And so she pumped a bunch of information into AI, and it was like, oh, interestingly enough, the customers who are in the four to seven hundred dollar range, they close the least. Anybody over seven hundred, they’re closing. Anybody under four hundred, they’re closing. So it’s that range. It’s like, do we need to use different language for estimates in that range? And it’s like, why is that? I never would have known that. Like, there’s a clear pattern here that we can do something about. So it’s, like, just seeing things.

Rebecca: Yeah, right, right, and making you think bigger.

Stephanie: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Rebecca: Prepping for this podcast, I said, “I’m going to go and meet with Stephanie Pipkin,” and ChatGPT knew who you were. Yeah, I told my husband this. I’m like, “Just so you know, ChatGPT knew who she was,” because he doesn’t fully, like, believe in the whole AI thing. He’s always like, “Why don’t you ask your chat thing?”

Stephanie: Oh yeah. “Why don’t you ask your chat thing?” Oh, that’s so funny. I mean, yeah, I get that. My boyfriend is the same way, because he’s like, “AI, AI.” I’m like — it’s funny. My best friend’s getting married, and I was over at her house last night, and I was like, “Oh yeah, this is our future children,” like, AI. And she’s like, “It’s so real looking.” I’m like, I know.

Rebecca: I do silly things with the dogs. I put them in a bath. Oh yeah. Like, with towels wrapped around, and cucumbers on their eyes. It’s so fun. Yeah, but it’s so smart, and it makes me feel like I have elevated my level of what I can do.

Stephanie: Oh my gosh! I’m going to show you my Claude, and you’re going to freak out. You’re gonna love it. Yeah, it really is transformative.

Growing Commercial

Stephanie: So yeah, I love to hear that you’re wanting to do more commercial. I’ll definitely show you some of our stuff with how we manage commercial, because we have, I think, 75 commercial accounts now. So it’s, like — obviously houses are so important too, but keep those commercial accounts happy, because their quality has to be on point, because it’s just such juicy money, you know.

Rebecca: Well, I just went to these two facilities. Now think about everybody that works there. Yeah, they might need a cleaner at home.

Stephanie: I cannot tell you how often that happens, where the commercial clients are getting us residential leads, and residential are getting us commercial leads, because we’re cleaning for business owners, or we’re cleaning for businesses, and they’re like, “You guys clean there, and you do a good job, so I want to see what you can do in my house.” And, like, it’s such a good pipeline of leads, right? Just exposed to so many more people, yeah.

Rebecca: And when I told the gentleman that was interviewing me, basically, or doing the walkthrough — I was like, “Well, any of those people might be my clients,” and he’s like, “I never thought about that.” So you have one person on staff, and it doesn’t really matter — that test toenail over there doesn’t stay.

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. How many people have seen that, Mister Toenail, and thought, “Wow, I would never have this person in my house, because they can’t even clean up a giant toenail”?

Rebecca: So I think even if we could get in — email about this test toenail might be important. Yeah, if it’s still there, and we can do a deep clean, even just a deep clean, get in there.

Stephanie: Get in there. Yeah, that’s one of the experiments we’ve been trying, is reaching out to commercial prospects and offering them a free cleaning of a space in there. Like, let me show you what we can do. Can we clean your break room? Can we clean some of your bathrooms? And just, like, a very limited space, and then knock their socks off. And it stands out, because nobody does that. Nobody does that, right?

Rebecca: Right, and it’s worth it. Yeah, it’s like, instead of spending money on ads — tiny bathrooms.

Stephanie: Exactly. Just detail them, make them perfect, and even if they have a cleaner there, you know what I mean? It’s like, hey, you can tell the difference. And just that willingness to provide value, no strings attached — that stands out. So when they are shopping around, it’s like, oh, remember when they did that? That really blew my socks off.

Rebecca: Yeah, we’ve done a couple of construction cleans, like at a bank where they did a remodel in their, you know, bank area. Okay, but then they’ve scheduled the deep clean for the whole facility. So now you’re going to go into that bathroom, and the bathroom had no construction. But you’re like, who cleans the bathroom? Well, the bathrooms are awful. And then, oh, it’s just like, who’s been cleaning this? Like, do you have a cleaner on staff, or do you have somebody? And they’re like, oh, we do it.

Walkthroughs Without Shaming the Client

Stephanie: That’s why — always be careful, guys, before you start shit-talking in a walkthrough, because you don’t know. Like, go back to Mark Limeberry’s episode. He had a foot-in-mouth instance when it came to commercial walkthroughs. Because I’ve definitely done it — you’re trying to show that you notice details, like, oh, this, this, and this. But the person who’s walking through, it might be their mom doing the cleaning. You don’t know. So just be very neutral. Of, like, oh, I’m noticing these things. Is that something you want taken care of? Just be very neutral, because otherwise you could be shit-talking, like, on accident, and they’re gonna remember that.

Rebecca: Yeah. My ex-husband, when we did walkthroughs, he used to talk about how dirty their carpet was. We don’t even shampoo carpet. He was selling for a different guy, but he’s walking through, like, “Ew.”

Stephanie: Oh, don’t talk shit. Yeah. It’s just a negative experience, even though what you’re trying to do is point out, like, “Hey, I’m a really clean person. I notice.” It doesn’t feel good. You know, it makes them kind of feel ashamed and, like, weird.

Rebecca: It’s all about how you word things, and how you make them feel completely fine. Yeah, because without their dirty house, we don’t even have a job.

Stephanie: Exactly. Oh, it’s fine. I love your dirty house. Job security.

Rebecca: Exactly. I will word things like, “Well, I mean, we can help with this.” Not, like, “Do you see all this buildup?”

Stephanie: Yeah. Exactly.

Rebecca: We can get this, and this must bother you. We can get that too.

Stephanie: Yeah. Very solution oriented. Exactly. Or for me, I’ll just touch things, and I won’t even say anything. Like, I’ll start checking the tops of the door frames and stuff. I don’t say anything. They see me, and the light bulb goes off in their head, of, like, “I’ve never thought about the top of the door frame, or the door itself, you know, or the light fixture.” And I’ll kind of just start touching stuff, and, like, this is my process. So they see, “Oh shit, she’s looking at things we’ve never looked at.”

Rebecca: Yeah. One time — I don’t know why — I found myself tapping on the door, because it had a bunch of greasy fingerprints, and she’s like, “Yeah, the doors drive me crazy.” And I didn’t even realize, but I had tapped a couple doors. Like, “We’ll get that.” Yeah, but I didn’t say anything.

Stephanie: It’s like, yeah, they’re pretty dirty. But yeah, we’ll get that. Noticing it. Yeah, noticing it. So that’s how you want to go about establishing your expertise. Like, I have the eye for this. I’m going to notice these details.

Rebecca: Yeah, and you don’t even need to say anything. Like, there was a rug where they put their shoes, and we were doing the walkthrough, and she was so overwhelmed — young baby. There were a lot of empty boxes. She’s like, “Oh, I’m so overwhelmed.” And her husband works a lot, and he broke his hand or something. But I said, “And this wall here, where he puts his shoes on — we can get that off.” She’s like, “Oh, you can!” Because he had just one dirty hand all the time, and just one circle of gross. So now she’s gonna look at him as not so gross, because now the wall’s clean.

Stephanie: Exactly. Better marriage.

Rebecca: Yeah, marriage. I feel like we improve a lot of relationships.

Stephanie: I know. I feel that way as well. A hundred percent. I mean, it has to be, because it’s such a big contention point in households, especially. Or, like, quality of life, where they’re taking care of their spouse, and they don’t have time to clean.

Rebecca: Yeah, they just don’t.

Stephanie: Exactly. No, a hundred percent. It really is just such a rewarding thing. And I think that, you know, this industry really attracts people that have, like, your heart, my heart, that kind of thing. For me, you know, if you believe in the love languages — I don’t know, they’re kind of debunked at this point — but if you do believe in them, or even if you just like the concept of it, for me, acts of service is huge. And so, if I love you, I want to take care of you. I want to do things for you. And so the way I see it is, my business is literally how I get to show love to a lot of people, platonically. But, like, you know, we can love lots of people. And I’m like, I get to pour love into people. And the more staff, the more successful we are, the more people we get to do that for. And that’s how I frame, like, success and growth and more money in my mind. I have a very positive mindset towards it, because I’m like, I get to help more people. Like, the more staff I bring on, the more customers — that’s every single family that we get to touch. Like, that’s fucking weird. Every family that we get to help. I, you know, it just makes me… I’m like, this is my legacy, my impact, and that’s how I see it. And I think, for you, it sounds like you’re really turning the page and starting, like, how can I have a bigger impact? Which is really exciting.

Caring for Elderly Clients

Rebecca: Yeah. I feel like we help so many people, and then there are a lot of elderly, yeah, whose kids are far away, or simply they’ve got their own kids. They can’t go clean their parents’ house. Like, we get hired by a lot of children, adult children of older folks.

Stephanie: Yes, that happens a lot, which is really rewarding, and those people are really wonderful.

Rebecca: You know, yeah. I suppose I have a question for you. How do you handle it when your clients die?

Stephanie: We had a client die in this past month. I just found out about it yesterday. I did not know, because I was going over — this is terrible — because I don’t contact, I don’t talk with any clients.

Rebecca: Okay, yeah. So I have a hard time, because I do.

Stephanie: Yeah, of course. I don’t have this emotional attachment. We’ve done two or three cleanings at this house. We just started her, and I was going over our cancellation list for this month, and I was like, “Why did someone cancel?” And my manager, they’re like, “Oh, she passed away.” Oh. I’m like, “Oh my God! We just started cleaning there.” I was like, “Did you let the cleaner know?” And they’re like, “We haven’t had a regular cleaner there, so we don’t have one.” I’m like, “We need to send flowers,” because the kids are probably gonna have us do a deep clean still. But yeah, it’s devastating. You know, we’ve had many elderly folks — not many, but a good amount of people, of course, over time — who have passed away, or who have gone into a home or elder care, and it’s just really sad. You know, it’s rough. So, a lot of, you know, sending flowers, doing whatever we can, just communicating love to, you know, the family as well. Because especially our cleaners, they take it very hard. Of course they do. They make this personal relationship. It’s awful when somebody passes, or a spouse — like, one of them passes. Yeah, that really sucks. So it’s even more important for us to have a regular cleaner there as much as possible, because that gives the employee a lot of meaning, and they have that personal connection. But yeah, it sucks.

Rebecca: Yeah, I was trying to figure out how you find out. Like, what if you’re only communicating with the one? Maybe with the elderly ones, we should have a second contact.

Stephanie: I would. I would say so, in the event that you’re not reaching them anymore.

Rebecca: Yep, exactly.

Stephanie: Like, hey, we have an emergency contact. Or if something’s going on in the house, and the child is far away, and, like, you know, hey, we’re seeing this pattern in the house. There seem to be some unsafe things happening.

Rebecca: Whether that — I’ve done a couple quotes, and then when you go back and you’re like, “Well, this is what I found,” and they’re like, “Wait, what? We had no idea. I think maybe we should put her somewhere.” Because, like, I had one where she didn’t even have any pants on, and she was in a rolly chair — not a wheelchair, just a rolly office chair — and the animal was going to the bathroom all over the house, and then it was up on her lap, but it was covered in poop. Oh, yeah, and the kids don’t know, right? And then she was like, “Oh, gosh,” and I was like, “Well, I just really fear that she’s going to get sick.”

Stephanie: Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think that’s something — that’s the only instance where I have reported a home. It was an elderly man, and it was in that state, and I took it to our local, like, elderly care services, or whatever your state or your county people are — elder services. And so I reported it. I gave pictures, and they came back. They’re like, “Thank you so much. He’s actually been on our radar, but the family has been kind of combative about getting him in a home, and so this way we can actually force the issue.” Because it was really bad. It was really bad. And so, yeah, I think that’s really wise, and honestly, it’s something that I haven’t really thought about either, now that you bring it up. Like, for our elderly folks, I would like to have some other contact, or, yeah, what happens if they do pass away? You do want someone to reach out to.

Rebecca: We recently had one, and we’ve been cleaning for her since just after the divorce. After I announced it on Facebook, she reached out and said, “Could you come and requote? I really didn’t like him.”

Stephanie: Oh, that was great. That’s nice.

Rebecca: Love her, yeah, exactly. And we’ve cleaned every two months, and she’s been through her open heart surgery. She’s been through a lot. And her husband, two days before, had called me and said, “Don’t come. Chris is on life support.” She went to the hospital. You know, yeah. Okay. So I texted her phone, and I said, “I hope Mike’s message was untrue. I love you very much.” And, you know, then she called me the next night. So she wasn’t on life support, apparently. Okay. She called and left a voicemail, and then she passed the next morning. So when I went to the funeral and I talked to the sister, she said she was so insistent. “She must call Rebecca.” She needed you there the next morning. She was going home on hospice and wanted the girls there to clean. She wanted me there to speak to her.

Stephanie: Oh my god.

Rebecca: We had just built such a relationship.

Stephanie: Yeah. Oh god.

Rebecca: So it’s very hard. And then when you think about some of these other ones, I’m thinking we just need a different policy, so that in the event — I just want to be there.

Stephanie: That’s a really good point. I’m gonna think about that. Of, like, how could we implement something systematic for that? Of course, yeah, you want to take care, and you don’t want to be like, “You’re old. I need to talk to somebody else.” Like, you don’t want it to come across that way. But it’s just — or, you know, sometimes they’re not the best, because they don’t use those text reminders. Like, a lot of our elderly clients don’t have email. They don’t. Yeah. Like, we literally call and say, we’ll be there at nine.

Rebecca: So you do have something like that.

Stephanie: Oh yeah, absolutely. I love that one. A little Wisconsin, little short couple. Or we have to call and tell them what the bill is, and they mail us a check. So as much as we systematize, guys, and you think, like, oh, there’s no way — yes, we still do this. Yeah. We have these, but those are the exceptions, not the rule. You know, and it’s literally in the notes: call and tell her what the cost is. Like, and that’s just what we do for them. You know.

Rebecca: So I feel like, if we take care of them when we get old, yes, someone’s going to take care of us.

Stephanie: Absolutely, and that’s what we hope for. And I feel like, especially in our culture — when I look at other cultures, they take care of their elderly so much better. Like when we look at Asian cultures, things like that, where everybody’s kind of integrated and caring. I don’t think that the United States does a good job at all. I think that there’s so much neglect and, frankly, abuse that happens to elderly folks. So if there’s something that we can do to make a positive impact, and also have our eyes there — and, like, that might be the only person that they talk to all week.

Rebecca: I often have to tell a new hire, “Just so you know, you’re all there to clean, but Jenna’s there to speak. She’s not going to clean. She’s going to go talk. She’s going to ask if she needs the mail. She’s going to ask if the dog needs a walk.”

Stephanie: That’s wonderful.

Rebecca: “We have other things that Jenna’s going to do. Don’t feel weird that she’s not cleaning.” Because new hires will be like, “Well, Jenna didn’t even clean.” They say, “Yes, maybe I should go sit down,” because Jenna’s sitting down. No, that’s her role at that job, because that’s who it is. That person needs a little extra.

Stephanie: Wow. Yeah. How do you, like, accommodate that? I mean, obviously, you’re working on your numbers. I’m very curious how you’re going to continue to account for that cost. You know what I mean?

Rebecca: Like, I feel like I’ve been on flat rate, and probably maybe too high of a profit margin, for a very long time.

Stephanie: No such thing. Well, don’t say those words.

Rebecca: Well, when you start interacting with other people and find out what other people are making or charging, you’re like, “Well…”

Stephanie: They don’t know shit, so don’t worry, it’s fine.

Rebecca: So I think that I have that flexibility. Yeah, at least for now, I do. There’s a cushion.

Stephanie: No, but, like, I mean, that makes such a difference, especially just taking care of all of those things. That really stands out. Tiny little things, but they make such a difference. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that.

Rebecca: I love old people. I don’t know why.

Stephanie: No, I do too. I do too. I totally understand. It’s like a soft spot. You’re like, how do you say no? Yeah, I know. I know. I totally can relate to that. And that’s where it’s like having staff who have that same heart. Like, that makes this very meaningful to them, of, like, I know I’m helping this person. You know, which is just really wonderful.

Rebecca: So I actually have a personal friend that’s passing away of cancer. It’s going quicker than…

Stephanie: So sorry.

Rebecca: But we were already cleaning for him, because his wife had passed away a while ago. So we already clean. He’s a good friend. Well, then he’s going home on hospice, so his daughter reached out and said, “Can you come clean?” And I was like, “Well, gosh, of course.” Yeah. And I said, “Do not send any money. So don’t send any, please.” They’re already being paid to be there. Yeah. And then I had just Jenna go, and I just feel like when it’s at that end point, it’s better to be more personal than just the cleaning. Not send three people in and back out. Jenna went, and she took care of the house, and she asked, you know, “Do you need anything in the fridge?” Clean. I had her bring flowers, and, oh, it was just like a meaningful visit. It’s not a meaningless visit.

Stephanie: You’re wonderful, Rebecca. Oh my gosh.

Rebecca: I hope that people take care of me when I’m older. That really is in my heart. Like, if I do this, hopefully it will come back to me. I feel like the universe is like that. So then I did let that daughter know, like, also, your house is right next door. Do not waste time cleaning your house. You’re spending time with your dad. Let me know when you need us. We’re coming there too. Like, whatever your family needs. Don’t worry about cleaning now. Because his days are numbered.

Stephanie: Yeah. And it does make such an impact. That’s why we’re, like, partnering with Cleaning for a Reason, or doing any type of free cleaning at all. Because it will help so much, because nobody thinks about that stuff when somebody is going through chemo, or just a hard time. Like, oh, bring them food, bring them these things. That’s great.

Rebecca: Yeah. The house, and their environment.

Stephanie: Yes.

Rebecca: And the cleanliness that they can sit in, because maybe they’re stuck in their house.

Stephanie: Yep. Exactly. Oh my gosh! Yeah.

Rebecca: I have a tab on our website to nominate someone in need. No one’s even used it yet.

Stephanie: I know.

Rebecca: Makes me so sad. I check it every week.

Stephanie: I’m like, I know. That’s why we have our Fresh Start Project — like, we get very few nominations, and it’s something I want to push for more. We get more through Cleaning for a Reason. But yeah, just pushing that out of, like, listen, if there’s somebody… And even, like, a new staff member just started last Friday, and she was going through her orientation on Monday, and she nominated — because we talk about it in our orientation — she literally nominated a friend’s mom, while she sat there. I was like, “Hell yeah, that’s what it’s for.” That’s what it’s for. And, like, this is important to us, you know. So, yeah, I love that you’re implementing that.

Stephanie’s Advice for Rebecca

Stephanie: So, is there anything, while you have me here — is there any specific question that I can answer for you? Hmm. Obviously, like I said, we’re gonna go look at stuff, so we’re gonna show you some stuff.

Rebecca: Now I feel like I need to book more calls with you. I’m like, this could really be great. I really could get somewhere. I guess a short question, after hearing what I’ve got going: what would be your one piece of advice? Like, “I could see you doing so much better if you do this.” Is there one thing?

Stephanie: I think definitely just going harder on commercial, just to help even out your fluctuation, because I think that’s going to be stressful for staffing. It’s interesting that you do working interviews. That could be something that could get more challenging the more you grow. You know, so I could see trying out group interviews like we do, even just to test it as an experiment. We do them all on Zoom. We don’t even do them in person anymore. So that’s something for all my listeners who’ve watched anything about my group interviewing — I want to caveat: we’ve moved all of that to Zoom. And I’ll have you talk to Crystal, and she does a two-interview process. I’ll show you how we track that and things. So I think keeping up with staffing is one of the most challenging parts of the business as we continue to grow. So I think that doing working interviews could scale poorly, potentially, and also just be a big waste of time and energy. It’s not a waste — I don’t want to say that — it’s a tougher thing to scale. So, what I could see is doing a group interview and then doing a working interview, like, hybrid them together, just so you can get a bigger pipeline. So I could see that being a problem there. Other than that, honestly, I think you’re on the right track in a lot of ways. So yeah, and like I said, I’m going to show you — I want to show you a bunch of stuff. I’m excited to go dig into it.

Rebecca: So yeah, yeah. But this has been so — when I initially heard your podcast, I was like, no way. She’s literally Wisconsin. She’s literally so close. This is, like, meant to be.

Stephanie: Yeah, one hundred percent meant to be. That’s what I was like. I was like, okay, we could do virtual, but I’m gonna be in Wisconsin this week. Let’s make this happen.

The Loneliness of Entrepreneurship

Stephanie: So yeah, this has been amazing. It’s just so fun. Like, I just love — it’s crazy what this has done. And just, like, the connection that it has allowed. And, like, it can be just so lonely. You know, it can be so lonely.

Rebecca: Really, really, yeah.

Stephanie: Even with — and it’s just so funny. I was just talking to some folks over the weekend in my personal life, and I was like, I really kind of fucked myself over with friendship, it feels like. Because what happened was, I graduated high school. I had friends in high school. I went to a tech school. I didn’t stay in the dorms. You know, I just rented. So I didn’t make friends in college like normal. And then I started waitressing, you know, very young. I made friends waitressing. And then I moved out of that town, so I didn’t see those people all the time. So then that friendship kind of… And then I opened the business. And then, all of a sudden, all interactions with people who would be friends were now employees. And, all of a sudden — you know, I would try to be friends with them, and it just bit me in the ass so many times. Even though I consider these women out here some of my closest friends, and, like, people in my life, they’re still employees. And so now I’m like, I’ve done this thing to myself, where I don’t have a huge friend group, which is, like, strange. And then, with the consulting and podcasting, I’m like, now these are all my friends through the internet. Yeah, like, I don’t need friends in real life, because I have friends in the internet.

Rebecca: Right, they’re in the computer. They’re in there. Yeah. I don’t feel like I have, like, other entrepreneurial friends exactly to relate to. Yeah. And my husband’s sick of hearing about it.

Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s so true. Like, there’s a bunch of, like, girls groups in Savannah on Facebook, and I would go to events, and there would just be, like, this… I mean, I’m super extroverted and friendly, but I want to talk about my work. It is what I’m passionate about. Like, all I want to talk about is business, and, like, what’s going on. I think that’s why I like the podcast. It’s like I have this outlet now. But I don’t like to do that to people if they’re not in business, because that doesn’t feel great.

Rebecca: Probably so.

Stephanie: But then I’m just like, that’s such a big part of me. If I don’t talk about it, it feels like I’m unable to express myself fully. So it’s hard to make friends sometimes outside of entrepreneurship. You know, because I want to talk about this, but I don’t want to be an asshole and talk about owning a business, because it’s so unrelatable.

Rebecca: Well, even my best friend — she is a manager at a restaurant, so her challenges are different than my challenges. But I don’t even feel like I can ever express my challenges, because they’re nowhere near.

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. It’s like she wouldn’t even relate. Yeah, yeah, it’s just different, exactly. So yeah, it’s tough. Or, like, my best friend works for her family’s company, which is a roofing company, and so she is managing roofers. So, like, we actually have a huge connection. Because, well, roofers — sometimes I think I have it bad, and then Maddie goes and tells me shit, and I’m just like, what the fuck? Like, it’s crazy some of the stuff that they pull. Like, it’s insane.

Rebecca: My husband works with all guys, and he’s like, “Oh my god, the guys are like little ladies.”

Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. Oh my god, they’re such drama queens. Okay, they are such — they like it more than girls. Like, men who say that women are dramatic — I’m like, get a bunch of men together.

Rebecca: Yeah. Oh my gosh, they’re a bunch of crybabies. I swear.

Where to Find Rebecca

Stephanie: So, so, yeah. I can totally relate. And that’s why I just love that you took the time today, because this was awesome, to be able to have this connection.

Rebecca: Very fun. Yeah, very fun.

Stephanie: Everybody, please leave Rebecca some love in the comments. Rebecca, if folks want to follow along, where can they find you online?

Rebecca: Well, we have a website. DellsMaidCleaningSolutions.com.

Stephanie: Not her ex-husband’s. Not that one.

Rebecca: Not the ex-husband’s. Exactly. And we’re on Facebook, so, Dells-Maid Cleaning Solutions.

Stephanie: Awesome. We’ll definitely link all that down below, guys. Please, please go follow along. Leave some love, because she took time out of her day to drive and see me, which is amazing, and meet my staff. So I’m very excited.

Rebecca: Thank you for having me.

Stephanie: Oh, this is very fun. This is super fun. And guys, we will see you on the next episode of Filthy Rich Cleaners. Bye-bye.

Stephanie: If you enjoyed this episode of the Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast, please be sure to leave us a five-star review so we can reach more cleaners like you. Until next time, keep your work clean and your business filthy rich.